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Old 12-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #2041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post

Been following this IIce Air thread with great interest. Roger's thread over on the MOA site is also really interesting. I was very surprised to see the amount of time the ECU spends in closed loop under throttle and load conditions where I would not expect it to be doing so.
Here's something to think about regarding that "amount of time the ECU spends in closed loop" idea.

During a ride, the aggregate percentage of the time in closed loop vs open loop isn't directly relevant. What I mean is, taking an aggregate percentage (aka: total) doesn't directly indicate that the ECU spends that percentage of time in open or closed loop.

For example, it's like two people that own the same model bike comparing how many miles per gallon they got, or how many miles they get from a rear tire. See what I mean? The aggregate number isn't relevant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post

Like Roger, I am using a Booster Plug right now which creates a -20 C offset in air temp and while it does help with surging somewhat, it does not eliminate it by any means.

There's been a lot of great comments and reports about improved throttle response, acceleration and also better idle with the IIce Air. On my 1100 RT I don't have much issue with any of these facets of performance but I do have very noticeable surging issues, especially at steady throttle and lower RPM. Typical for these bikes.

Has anyone with an 1100 noticed any improvement specifically with surging with the IIce Air installed so far?
Surging is one of a number of things that occur during closed loop operation. Whether what the ECU is doing will cause the motor to surge depends on how the motor is being operated.

As you have noticed, the Boosterplug and IICE Air and other competitive products reduce surging as a side effect. The upcoming IICE Cool takes a much bigger bite out of surging, about twice as big.

Something to note, the competitive products will not work with the IICE Cool. The IICE Cool does not work properly with a -20C Intake Air Temperature offset. It needs a -10C offset.


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Old 12-14-2011, 04:29 PM   #2042
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The doctor says, "If it keeps improving just forget about it, and I'll see you again in another 12 years." It's good to know that it was a random infection of some sort. I'm feeling pretty good now but I'm going to take another day. And then I still have some roof maintenance to finish. Give that, and since I'm not doing anything IICE Air related just now, let's say the order desk will remain open till Friday.


Yah they are great, mine tells me my chemistry is out of whach (chemistry is one of my strong suits) Basically I'm gunna die. 10 - 20 years just a guess. Really? I'm more worried about the beer truck....

Doctors "Practice" next time you get on an airplane, imagine the Engineer "Practicing".....
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:19 PM   #2043
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Thanks for the comments on my Wideband O2 project. I worked on the install for a while today and also crunched the earlier data some more. Interesting results which I will post tomorrow. One interesting thing I've spotted in the data is that the bike can go to FULL LEAN during a normal up shifting acceleration. Talk about a surge candidate. Will get the graphs on the other thread as soon as I can.

The point about aggregate time in closed loop and leaning during closed loop acceleration is that you have to address closed loop lambda if you want the very best driveability.

And at a minimum you have to do something for Open Loop to deal with E10 enleanment.

Roger

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Old 12-14-2011, 09:21 PM   #2044
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

Thanks for the comments on my Wideband O2 project. I worked on the install for a while today and also crunched the earlier data some more. Interesting results which I will post tomorrow.
Cool, I'm sure many are looking forward to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

One interesting thing I've spotted in the data is that the bike can go to FULL LEAN during a normal up shifting acceleration. Talk about a surge candidate.
I don't know what you mean by "full lean". I mean, what is the metric?

(You may not be talking about upshifts per se...) Something to note about an upshift event is, an upshift event isn't acceleration. It's normal and preferable for fuel to be significantly trimmed during the upshift event. An aside, the primary culprit for smooth or not smooth upshifts is the driver.

Something else to note, there is mixing and flow reversal at the O2 sensors because of the exhaust crossover in the header. Also, there are sensor response delays that vary with the flow rate across the sensor. An O2 sensor isn't a good tool to measure dynamic events.

The ECU data output regarding fuel pulsewidth is of low resolution and very low data rate. (I mean very low rate relative to individual injection events.) Duration of individual injection events (in microseconds), for each cylinder, is the primary indicator of what the ECU is doing. Granted that is some fine-grain and high-sample-speed data.

The ECU data from queries through the OBD (On Board Diagnostic) port by the GS-911 are good. But they are also lacking in certain key ways. And I'm just trying limit what I call the 'verification of preconceived notions' that can often arise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

The point about aggregate time in closed loop and leaning during closed loop acceleration is that you have to address closed loop lambda if you want the very best driveability.
I understand the thinking. But really, the areas in the operational envelope where fueling changes are needed are minimal. A few changes can or should be made in the closed loop envelope, and a few more changes during open loop.

Edit: It's easy to think that the division between good and bad drivability is, open loop good, closed loop bad. But it isn't as simple as that.


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Poolside screwed with this post 12-15-2011 at 12:38 AM
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:50 PM   #2045
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wow, and i thought just turning the key and pushing that button was enough..........who would have guessed?
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #2046
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Latest estimate of shipping

Hi,

I was wondering of there's an estimate of when the next batch is shipping? Thanks a million.

JW
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:37 PM   #2047
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I'm working on them tomorrow and shooting for Saturday.


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Old 12-15-2011, 09:43 PM   #2048
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Originally Posted by Plane Dr View Post

Yah they are great, mine tells me my chemistry is out of whach (chemistry is one of my strong suits) Basically I'm gunna die. 10 - 20 years just a guess. Really? I'm more worried about the beer truck....

Doctors "Practice" next time you get on an airplane, imagine the Engineer "Practicing".....
Yea, luckily we have this to look forward to. It stands to get some of the 'Practice' (personal subjectivity?) out of the equation.

A couple of articles in a recent trade mag:
IBM's Watson wows 'em at Cleveland Clinic Summit

Talking supercomputers could play pivotal role in medtech


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Old 12-16-2011, 01:55 AM   #2049
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I'm working on them tomorrow and shooting for Saturday.

Cool! Thank you, I'm looking forward to trying it out.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:50 AM   #2050
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Now that you're nearing the end of the IIce Air product it would be great to hear more details about IIce Cool--what it does, how it works, where it connects into the bike, and where it can be mounted. I've got my bike all opened up and I'd like to start thinking about where it might fit and if it is a good match for the R1150RT.

RB
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:31 PM   #2051
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

Now that you're nearing the end of the IIce Air product it would be great to hear more details about IIce Cool--what it does, how it works, where it connects into the bike, and where it can be mounted. I've got my bike all opened up and I'd like to start thinking about where it might fit and if it is a good match for the R1150RT.
I'm glad you're raring to go! Regarding info about the IICE Cool, there's a host of navigation links in the first post of this thread. You'll find a lot of info about the IICE Cool in here.

Regarding installation, the Cool is the same size as the IICE Air, and has the same winged mounting tabs. On your RT, or any model for that matter, it will just zip tie to a nearby bracket or wiring harness. Not much to think about really.

By the way, did you get an IICE Air yet? The competitor products (Boosterplug, et al.) will not work with the IICE Cool.


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Old 12-16-2011, 05:52 PM   #2052
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I bet a salty mod-u-lator worth their salt could move all these "order status" and payment posts to the Vendors thread... and leave this thread cleared up for the technical side of things.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:18 PM   #2053
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About 2 hours left in the IICE Air sale.


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Old 12-17-2011, 12:53 PM   #2054
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If someone is interested in an IICE Air, PM me.

I've had it installed for a couple months, and the bike has been parked for half that time... I won't be riding the bike for a few more months thanks to a shoulder injury.

bob

roadrage screwed with this post 12-17-2011 at 12:54 PM Reason: typo... duh cool isn't out yet.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:58 PM   #2055
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About 2 hours left in the IICE Air sale.

Finallly! Work will now get started on my IICE Cool!
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