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Old 01-26-2012, 06:34 PM   #2191
Treadless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Nice. I remember the first time, it was sure a surprise. I was tooling along in stop-and-go traffic at 3000rpm in 1st. Started a lane change and whacked the throttle open while looking to the side, and saw the earth slowly tilt. It's kind of a trip to wheelie the worlds largest enduro.


Sounds like you are getting good marks in that marketing class you're taking in your spare time.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #2192
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I'll never eclipse JJ. Right boss?


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Old 01-26-2012, 08:02 PM   #2193
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Marketing will clearly answer YES! to the question "Will the IICE Cool fix the jerkiness?" Me, I'd like to know what I'm saying yes to.

Jerkiness or throttle "snatchiness" at low rpm speeds, whether accelerating or decelerating. Most apparent when creeping the bike through slow traffic. That's the rpm range where I'm thinking the Cool will really have to work on. I had not really noticed that issue on higher rpms thus, my question on your rpms.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:11 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I'll never eclipse JJ. Right boss?

Ok so you asked for it

RIGHT?



YES!

JJ
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #2195
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Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post

Jerkiness or throttle "snatchiness" at low rpm speeds, whether accelerating or decelerating. Most apparent when creeping the bike through slow traffic.
I see. But I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by those terms. And I hope to do that without using more of those 'colloquial' terms to describe them.

Here's what to do. Try and describe exactly what you're doing when the "jerkiness" happens. So far I'm not getting what you're talking about. I don't see how something that happens "whether accelerating or decelerating", "creeping", or "whacked the throttle from zero throttle position" could possibly be describing the same event.

For example: "Most apparent when creeping...through slow traffic." What are your throttle movements associated with "creeping".


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Old 01-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #2196
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The symptoms while creeping in traffic at a low rpm are like you are slightly opening and closing the throttle quickly and repeatedly. I liken the feeling to riding a bucking horse. I'm quite sure it is a result of a lean mixture condition, and that many others have also experienced this. It's just something that (well-tuned) carb'd engines don't do.

To ease the problem while creeping in traffic, one will have to add more rpm and slide the clutch for more smoothness.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:03 PM   #2197
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I get what you mean.

Here's something. A number of the drivability issues at the low speeds you're talking about are related to the minimum speed that the bike can travel. Idling along in 1st gear is still a little too fast for very slow stop and go traffic.

The thing is, the ECU will not allow the motor to idle at a low RPM. I mean, the motor can easily idle at 600 to 700 RPM, that is to say that it's mechanically capable of doing it. But the ECU isn't programmed for a low idle like that.

Fueling has a lot to do with it, but it's also the high idle speed.


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Old 01-27-2012, 01:12 AM   #2198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Fueling has a lot to do with it, but it's also the high idle speed.

Thanks PS.

I get none of those "bucking" symptoms on my streetbike, a Yamaha Fazer 1000 with well-tuned carbs. Will the IICE Cool fix those issues on the oil/hexheads?
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by opposedcyljunkie View Post
Thanks PS.

I get none of those "bucking" symptoms on my streetbike, a Yamaha Fazer 1000 with well-tuned carbs. Will the IICE Cool fix those issues on the oil/hexheads?
No fair! Comparing the poor independent butterfly throttle EFI and emissions-tuned ECU boxer, with a CV diaphragm slide carburetted inline four. Especially if you adjusted the idle air circuit on the carbs and raised the slide needles a couple of millimeters.

Really though, if it's programmed that way, an ECU fuel and spark system will outperform carbs on all fronts. Efficiency, emissions, power and drivability. Compared to carbs, an 'unrestricted' ECU wins hands down.

But that's not really a comparison. A heads-up contest between carbs and EFI isn't really a contest. The carbs are so outgunned that the contest isn't fair.

But, say you compare an emissions-tuned ECU with a drivability-tuned ECU. The difference between the two feels like night and day. The IICE Air and IICE Cool don't amount to a new ECU, but together they take a big step in that direction.

Back to the drivability issue you described, OCJ. I think I understand the issue correctly, and I would refer to the problem as Hesitation. At least that's the ECU's part in it, the emissions-based fueling causes hesitation at throttle tip-in. The hesitation causes the "bucking" you described, but it's a secondary mechanical and suspension effect initiated by the hesitation.

I'm glad we sorted that out, thanks for taking the time. I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing. So regarding your first question a few posts ago. Will the IICE Cool fix the hesitation problem? Yes.


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Old 01-27-2012, 04:30 AM   #2200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
No fair! Comparing the poor independent butterfly throttle EFI and emissions-tuned ECU boxer, with a CV diaphragm slide carburetted inline four. Especially if you adjusted the idle air circuit on the carbs and raised the slide needles a couple of millimeters.

Really though, if it's programmed that way, an ECU fuel and spark system will outperform carbs on all fronts. Efficiency, emissions, power and drivability. Compared to carbs, an 'unrestricted' ECU wins hands down.

But that's not really a comparison. A heads-up contest between carbs and EFI isn't really a contest. The carbs are so outgunned that the contest isn't fair.

But, say you compare an emissions-tuned ECU with a drivability-tuned ECU. The difference between the two feels like night and day. The IICE Air and IICE Cool don't amount to a new ECU, but together they take a big step in that direction.

Back to the drivability issue you described, OCJ. I think I understand the issue correctly, and I would refer to the problem as Hesitation. At least that's the ECU's part in it, the emissions-based fueling causes hesitation at throttle tip-in. The hesitation causes the "bucking" you described, but it's a secondary mechanical and suspension effect initiated by the hesitation.

I'm glad we sorted that out, thanks for taking the time. I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing. So regarding your first question a few posts ago. Will the IICE Cool fix the hesitation problem? Yes.


This was one area the BMW annoyed the crap out of me. The IICE air helped significantly. It still doesn't match some other bikes but for me it was an order of magnitude better. Can't wait for the cool...
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:09 AM   #2201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I'm glad we sorted that out, thanks for taking the time. I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing. So regarding your first question a few posts ago. Will the IICE Cool fix the hesitation problem? Yes.


Bravo!!!

I did mention earlier that the -20 setting helped a bit on the "bucking", at least more than the -10 setting. However, after the throttle tip-in stage, I found the -10 setting to be smoother on the overall. YMMV as usual. When do you expect to start production on the "Cool"?
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:06 PM   #2202
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I want to ask Marketing how Production is coming along. I'd like to join the discussion about how the product works but, alas, I haven't received the Aire yet.

My '11 GS includes that it's tired of pinging on tip-in/advanced throttle.

Signed , Anxious
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:30 PM   #2203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkmania View Post
I want to ask Marketing how Production is coming along. I'd like to join the discussion about how the product works but, alas, I haven't received the Aire yet.

My '11 GS includes that it's tired of pinging on tip-in/advanced throttle.

Signed , Anxious
Uh, Production is 3 doors down on the left

This is Marketing where we ALWAYS say

YES!

JJ
ps in other words I really don't know the details, sorry 'bout that
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• The hidden harmony is found with joy, while the obvious brings indifference.
• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Collected Works of the WingMakers Volume 1 pg. 590
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:18 PM   #2204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkmania View Post

I want to ask Marketing how Production is coming along. I'd like to join the discussion about how the product works but, alas, I haven't received the Aire yet.

My '11 GS includes that it's tired of pinging on tip-in/advanced throttle.

Signed , Anxious
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post

Uh, Production is 3 doors down on the left:

This is Marketing where we ALWAYS say

YES!

JJ
ps in other words I really don't know the details, sorry 'bout that
Yea, Marketing knows better than to check up on Production. You remember what happened when you guys installed the surveillance cameras.

I've got about 80 of these assembled up through the epoxy potting steps. I'm potting a batch of 30 on Sunday and another 30 on Tuesday. The full cure for the 2 steps takes 48 hours. The Sunday batch will be cured on Tuesday, and the Tuesday batch on Thursday.


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Old 01-28-2012, 12:44 AM   #2205
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Excellent product (work) guys but there’s one thing wrong
Remember those 70’ vintage Texas Instruments calculators smell... O the smell of new electronics
And after months of anticipation for the IICE Air I tear into the bag and sniff sniff nadda no new electronics smell But it did have a little hint of beach air




Can’t wait for the IICE Cool get it right more voc.





Never mind I forgot it’s made in California no voc
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