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Old 03-23-2012, 04:17 PM   #2476
johnjen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPEN RANGE View Post
Please excuse my "retard" question, but... how do valve adjusts and tb balancing work now?
Should the IICE Air be at the -20 or set jumper to bypass for this delicate "tune up" operation?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaDakota View Post
What are the thoughts about dealer service with the IICE Air installed while under warranty?
Heading out for my 12k service at the dealer. Shouldith removeth?
There are no changes to ANY tune up procedures.

As for removal before a dealership service. IF that is perceived as necessary, then you have 2 options.
It can be easily removed OR its effect can be effectively nullified (-0 setting), either will restore operation back to 'normal'.

Your decision, of course, is more dependent upon what your relationship with the dealership is than if the IICE Air is installed and working or not.

JJ
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:10 PM   #2477
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Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post

I'm not PS or JJ (or I'd already have mine) but, I also would not change the settings or disconnect the ICE when doing the valves or tb's. It probably wouldn't have any effect either way (especially on the valves), BUT I would rather tune the bike in the condition I run it in.
Can't argue with that. And like you said, mostly a matter of preference.



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Old 03-23-2012, 08:11 PM   #2478
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Originally Posted by RomaDakota View Post

What are the thoughts about dealer service with the IICE Air installed while under warranty?

Heading out for my 12k service at the dealer. Shouldith removeth?
Regarding leaving the IICE Air installed during Dealer Service calls, like JJ says, it depends on the relationship with your dealer. If it were me I wouldn't worry about it.

Maybe that doesn't get to the heart of the question. Which might go something like "Will it void my warranty?" No, absolutely not. But that doesn't prevent your dealer from being a proper nuisance about whatever he has a mind to.



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Old 03-23-2012, 10:38 PM   #2479
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Certainly my heart is with the f-it crowd. Well, we'll see how it goes. Last I saw, she was bleeding from many orifices. Currently napping at the dealership as I type. Until tomorrow...
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:04 AM   #2480
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

The [Techlusion/Wunderlich devices] intercept the O2 sensor but they don't seem to say what they do with the O2 signal, any thoughts?
Yes, the device is connected to the O2 sensor input. But the term 'intercept' is sort of the wrong idea, let me explain. 'Intercept' implies that it takes the O2 sensor signal and does something to it. You know, modifying it in some way. But that isn't what's happening.

The device doesn't modify the O2 sensor signal, not in the common sense of the word 'modify' at any rate. Instead the device creates a 'simulated' O2 sensor signal. A proper and correct camouflage signal that the ECU will accept as normal.

As you know the Techlusion/Wunderlich/Cobra devices function by holding the fuel injectors open longer. (The second paragraph in this post covers it briefly. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...4#post18234594)

The device adds raw fuel to the motor and must create a 'simulated' and correct O2 sensor signal. Because of the added fuel the 'real' O2 sensor output swings outside of its normal range and no longer looks like it's supposed to, to say the least.

If the 'real' O2 sensor signal were connected to the Motronic, the ECU would respond by shortening the fuel injector pulsewidth to reduce the amount of fuel entering the motor. Ultimately the O2 sensor would be interpreted as faulty and the ECU would raise an error flag.

To keep all of that from happening a simulated O2 sensor signal is created to hide the operation of the fuel-adding device.


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Poolside screwed with this post 03-24-2012 at 04:17 AM Reason: typo
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Old 03-24-2012, 04:04 AM   #2481
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Originally Posted by MotoBoss View Post

SWEET mine is finally on it's way.


well friday anyway.
You all know I hate to be the one to say it, but the Friday ship date will move to Tuesday.

A few days ago, Wednesday, I wrecked my back doing nothing more than reaching down to tie my shoes. Of course the day before may have had something to do with it. I have an outdated user manual for my body. Apparently I'm working from the 'teen through 20s' version.

I can't sit or stand for more than about an hour without having a lie down. I haven't been able to get much of anything done, work or pleasure.

The doc was his usual fount of knowledge. "I strained my back over exerting myself." He replies, "You're kidding right? Don't do that."

I swear the guy sees me coming. "Why do I even come here?... Hey, that was not a rhetorical question!" and we have a good laugh. Hahahaha! Ouch!


Anyway, it looks like Tuesday.


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Old 03-24-2012, 04:11 AM   #2482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
...

As you know the Techlusion/Wunderlich/Cobra devices function by holding the fuel enjectors open longer. (The second paragraph in this post covers it briefly. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...4#post18234594)

The device adds raw fuel to the motor and must create a 'simulated' and correct O2 sensor signal. Because of the added fuel the 'real' O2 sensor output swings outside of its normal range and no longer looks like it's supposed to, to say the least.

If the 'real' O2 sensor signal were connected to the Motronic, the ECU would respond by shortening the fuel injector pulsewidth to reduce the amount of fuel entering the motor. Ultimately the O2 sensor would be interpreted as faulty and the ECU would raise an error flag.

To keep all of that from happening a simulated O2 sensor signal is created to hide the operation of the fuel-adding device.

After too much research and 10s of thousands of data points measured, yes, I've got a solid idea of how one ECU, the Motronic MA 2.4, works and handles its sensors. The Dobeck products are very secretive about what their product does and how it does it, or how much fuel it adds in which "map" areas. Since the 1032 only "monitors & drives" (not intercepts) the common injector lead I had deduced that it looked at rep-rate and pulse width. (Interestingly, to measure pulse width it has to let the injector start to go off and then almost instantaneously turn it back on for their "extension". Otherwise there is no width to measure. Also, I really wonder after a fuel overrun cuttoff event, how many cycles it takes it to recompute the rep rate.) I just couldn't deduce why they would bother intercepting (I fully agree that it's a misleading choice of word) rather than disconnecting the O2 like they do in most of their configurations. So they do it to keep the Boxers from throwing an error code, wow! The Powercommander doesn't even bother, they just disconnect it.

I'm not a fan of products that disable the O2 Closed Loop operation. Once you disconnect the O2 it ceases to do its "adaptation magic", keeping fueling predictable despite bike to bike injector, fuel pressure, battery and other variations. And I'm not a fan of the Tech because it is hard to know how much fuel it's adding and when, AND it disconnects O2.

Thanks for taking the time to fill us in.
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Old 03-24-2012, 04:35 AM   #2483
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
You all know I hate to be the one to say it, but the Friday ship date will move to Tuesday.

A few days ago, Wednesday, I wrecked my back doing nothing more than reaching down to tie my shoes. Of course the day before may have had something to do with it. I have an outdated user manual for my body. Apparently I'm working from the 'teen through 20s' version.

I can't sit or stand for more than about an hour without having a lie down. I haven't been able to get much of anything done, work or pleasure.

The doc was his usual fount of knowledge. "I strained my back over exerting myself." He replies, "You're kidding right? Don't do that."

I swear the guy sees me coming. "Why do I even come here?... Hey, that was not a rhetorical question!" and we have a good laugh. Hahahaha! Ouch!


Anyway, it looks like Tuesday.


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Old 03-24-2012, 04:46 AM   #2484
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post

I just couldn't deduce why they would bother intercepting (I fully agree that it's a misleading choice of word) rather than disconnecting the O2 like they do in most of their configurations. So they do it to keep the Boxers from throwing an error code, wow!
That's a little out of context. The primary reason for the simulated O2 sensor signal is to stop the ECU from compensating for the added fuel. It is a more elegant solution than eliminating the O2 sensor altogether. I was at their (Dobeck Performance) Henderson offices years ago pitching a new model and new functions.

While I was there we discussed the algorithms they use. And was looking over the shoulder and talking with of one of the firmware engineers as he made adjustments to the code for a model being tested on a CBR1000RR running on the dyno at the time. They sure have a good lab setup. Though we ended up not doing the project, I was impressed with what they were doing. Maybe it isn't the best way to do it, but at some point it's difficult to argue with success.

For example, I asked him where they came up with the name 'Techlusion', and he proudly answered, "It stands for Technical Illusion." Now I don't know about you but somehow that impresses me.


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Old 03-24-2012, 04:59 AM   #2485
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
Thanks Mike! But I think I'm gonna stick with whiskey and aspirin for now. I'll make with Barbie and the trapeze as soon as I heal up.



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Old 03-24-2012, 05:25 AM   #2486
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
....

For example, I asked him where they came up with the name 'Techlusion', and he proudly answered, "It stands for Technical Illusion." Now I don't know about you but somehow that impresses me.



Hummm, Technical illusion ... Some might think of it like that PT Barnum phrase ...
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:37 AM   #2487
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Here's the current list of customer initials and destination states.

B.B.Y., NJ Shipped as of 02/07
R.S., CA
P.B., OR
J.R.T., CO
M.S., CA
G.C., NH
D.L., CO
L.S., TX
S.P., CO
R.S., TX
M.K., WI
T.T., TN
K.A., WI
A.B., CT
K.D., VA
D.M., WA
R.L., CA
J.P., TN
C.R., CA
D.S., PA
D.T., TX
J.Y., CA
M.L., NJ
M.W., GA
R.H., VA
D.M., WA
J.P., TX
C.M., CA
----------
M.P., FL Shipped as of 03/03
J.M., MI
G.H., WA
S.B., LA
L.D., WA
G.K.W., APO/AE
C.K., FL
A.C., TX
M.F., MI
M.P., SC
J.L., TX
M.C., CO
F.F., FL
A.G., TX
R.B., NM
V.T., WA
W.R.D., OH
P.C., CA
B.W., IL
J.C., CA
D.B., PA
R.F., GA
R.L., NY
K.W., CA
M.M., IL
D.C., VA
M.H., IL
J.W., CA
----------
D.R., CA Shipped as of 03/16
J.N., AZ
J.S., HI
T.V., OR
S.B., OK
D.W., NC
G.A., CA
B.C., CA
G.B., TX
J.K., KS
S.B., IL
K.Y., CA
R.B., MS
M.C., GA
J.F., GA
G.F., AZ
C.B., CO
D.P.P., MI
D.R., VA
K.F., CA
K.D., CO
J.S., ID
D.L., CA
K.V.U., CA
J.K., AR
G.R., NH
H.B., CO
J.G., WA
F.C., MS
J.V., VA
M.F., CA 
J.H., CA
----------
USBA, IN  Scheduled for 03/27
D.B., NJ
J.L., MO
D.H., CA
R.W., KY
S.S., WA
D.V., WA
K.S., MO
K.P., IL
J.B., FL
W.G., CO
M.C., CA
E.S., CA
D.B., CA
R.D., CA
M.C., WA
M.F., TX
M.G., DE
T.M., TX
A.H., OR
E.A., NV
GEI, OR
G.H., CO
J.J., CA
J.H., OR
M.D., AR
W.W., ID
M.J.S., CA
R.P., GA
----------
A.H., TX  Scheduled for --/--
M.M., CA
E.C., CA
M.S., CA
M.S., MI
C.T., CA
M.M., CO
D.R., CA
D.B., MA
D.S., CO
M.T., CA
T.C., GA
M.W., NY
C.T., ID
J.N., CA
D.S., CA
A.P., CO
E.H., CA


That amounts to 152 pieces. (Plus the last minute entries. If you missed the cutoff date send me a PM or email.)

The IICE Airs are built in 30+ piece quantities.
A batch may have fewer initials as some people ordered more than one.

Disappointed to see the ship date has been pushed back again for the third week in a row. Trying to be patient and do appreciate the effort it takes to get them built and mailed. Hope to see the arrival soon! Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:39 AM   #2488
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Thanks Mike! But I think I'm gonna stick with whiskey and aspirin for now. I'll make with Barbie and the trapeze as soon as I heal up.


Get yourself a TENS unit. They work wonders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcu...ve_stimulation
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:36 AM   #2489
dutch97501
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This isn't going to turn into another one of those 20k ohm resistor -25c threads I hope.
Maybe you should rename this devise the Silver Bullet and send it to Washington...lol.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #2490
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Finally was able to get out into the mountains here and take a ride with the gadget installed. Man, this thing works great. Smooth throttle response and no hit on mpg for me. Still getting 55mpg on the mountain pavement ride. Can't wait for the next gadget to come on the market!

DL
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