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Old 06-06-2012, 06:01 PM   #2911
mouthfulloflake
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I wondered the same thing about where you mount it, but after looking at the build process, they are so potted, that unless you put it in a freezer, or a hot oven , it wont see ambient temp quickly enough to make a difference, right?

how about this... will the ICe air thingy react differently if its been in my freezer for a few hours?
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #2912
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Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
PS and JJ,

What is the best WAG when the Cool and the Smooth will be offered? Even a year will do. I know, I know this question has been a bane of your existence for months if not years.. But after a few Bowmores I gotta ask!

Marketing ALWAYS has an answer. Of course you'd expect that it would…



YES! INDEED!!

In the mean time I will ride the shit out of my bike and enjoy every second...life is good.

You guys have got to get up here to NE Oregon and shed the tendrils...as we say up here, you are welcome at our campfire.. it may not be heaven but you can see it from here...

Now where is my glass....................................Bothy Band calls.
For me it would be 'down' as in south and for Poolside it would be 'up' as in north.

Thanks for the invite.


JJ
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:52 PM   #2913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post
I wondered the same thing about where you mount it, but after looking at the build process, they are so potted, that unless you put it in a freezer, or a hot oven , it wont see ambient temp quickly enough to make a difference, right?

how about this... will the ICe air thingy react differently if its been in my freezer for a few hours?
Why would you want to put it in the freezer?

And perchance if you actually did so, the potted assembly (being colder than ambient) would influence the thermistors until it all warmed up to ambient.

But the thermistors (being above the mass of the potting compound) react to ambient air temps VERY fast, just like the stock temp sensor does.

JJ
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:57 PM   #2914
mouthfulloflake
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I would put in the freezer to try and see if it made a difference in the way the bike ran. ( since it has not done so in ambient temps)

hmmm, above the mass of the potting compound... ok.

I have some new ideas when I get my gizmo back





Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Why would you want to put it in the freezer?

And perchance if you actually did so, the potted assembly (being colder than ambient) would influence the thermistors until it all warmed up to ambient.

But the thermistors (being above the mass of the potting compound) react to ambient air temps VERY fast, just like the stock temp sensor does.

JJ
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #2915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
For me it would be 'down' as in south and for Poolside it would be 'up' as in north.

Thanks for the invite.

JJ
Guys..we have a complete spare room...get your butts up here! Off road is umlimited and pavement [Aghhhhhrrr] is awesome...offer is alway open...!
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:26 PM   #2916
KCDakar
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is KCDakar a guy or a gal?
People ask me this all the time...
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:24 AM   #2917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post

hmmm, [the thermistors are] above the mass of the potting compound... ok.
Yes. They respond very quickly to temperature changes.
You can breathe on them and the temp change will register.


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Old 06-08-2012, 02:58 AM   #2918
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Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post

I have some new ideas when I get my gizmo back
Regarding getting your IICE Air back, I have this idea and I want to see if it's ok with you.

For those of you who don't know, Mouthfulloflake was having some issues with his bike. And to eliminate the possible influence of a defective product I got it back from him to test it out.

Here's what I found. The Air tests out just fine, and is working properly. There is a slight trace of dielectric grease on the electrical contacts. I remember someone mentioning that they applied some dielectric grease to the contacts, I don't remember if that was you. Either way, I did not observe any effect from the slight residual contamination.

The dielectric grease is green in color and I initially thought it was copper oxide on the electrical contacts. There is very little on there. Looking at it under high magnification showed it was a grease compound of some sort. I rubbed a tiny speck of a sample between my fingers and it feels like a silicone not petroleum based product. Like I said though, The Air passed the tests, and works right on the bike.

So here's what I want to try. I would like to send your IICE Air up to JJ for another bike test input, and he'll forward it to you. What do you think, would that be ok? I would send it out tomorrow to Seattle.


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Old 06-08-2012, 06:34 AM   #2919
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That is fine with me PS, just give me an idea on the time frame.

It wasnt me that put anything on those connectors BTW.

I bought the bike used a few years ago, lord only knows what it went through before that.

you mentioned at one time my bike possibly having an aftermarket eprom in the morotronic box.

would I still have lean surge issues with the rose colored plug in that scenario?

also, you asked me to unplug the IAT and run it and see what happens, I have yet to do that, but I will certainly try that if it wont harm anything else on the bike?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:14 AM   #2920
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You might try removing the rose cat plug completely. I got drastically different results from the IICE Air (for the better) when used without the Steptoe jumper.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #2921
mouthfulloflake
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I did.

Its too rich, blubbery off idle response, and sooty tail pipe with no coding in place.

rose plug, lean surge.
no plug, overly rich.

step toe jumper, best compromise I have found.

those were all tested with, and without the IICE air, no difference was noticed.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll-sen View Post
You might try removing the rose cat plug completely. I got drastically different results from the IICE Air (for the better) when used without the Steptoe jumper.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:47 AM   #2922
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Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post

That is fine with me PS, just give me an idea on the time frame.
JJ should receive your IICE Air by Tuesday the 12th. He will plug it in on his bike right away and forward it to you.
You should receive it between Friday 15th and Monday the 18th.



It wasnt me that put anything on those connectors BTW.
I bought the bike used a few years ago, lord only knows what it went through before that.
I understand.


You mentioned at one time my bike possibly having an aftermarket EPROM in the [Motronic ECU].
Would I still have lean surge issues with the rose colored plug in that scenario?
Too lean and too rich feel very similar. I hope you understand that we can't reasonably get into a long-distance diagnosis of your bike.


Also, you asked me to unplug the IAT and run it and see what happens, I have yet to do that, but I will certainly try that if it wont harm anything else on the bike?
It would be the next thing to try, and operating without an IAT will not hurt anything. Try operating with and without the IAT plugged in. Use all of the various code plug configurations you normally use.


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Old 06-09-2012, 03:17 AM   #2923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post

Its too rich, blubbery off idle response, and sooty tail pipe with no coding in place.

rose plug, lean surge.
no plug, overly rich.

step toe jumper, best compromise I have found.
Given all the symptoms you reported, and that your IICE Air tested good over here, it does seem possible that an aftermarket EPROM is installed inside the Motronic ECU on your bike.

Here are a few Cat Code Plug configurations for aftermarket EPROMS.

This is the BBPower coding chart for an 1100.




This is possibly the BBPower chart for an 1150.




Another aftermarket EPROM chip. Manufacturer unknown.





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Poolside screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 02:25 PM
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:26 AM   #2924
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Hey there TM. The IICE Air richens the mixture by 6% during Open-loop operation.

For Open-loop operation that is the expected result from lowering the Intake Air Temperature input to the ECU. As you can imagine, the fuel/air ratio is a mass ratio calculation, and the temperature and pressure of the air is used to calculate the mass of the air.

For Closed-loop operation, the ECU still relies on air temperature and pressure, but 'adjusts' its mass ratio calculations based on feedback from the O2 sensor. This 'feedback adjustment' eventually negates the 6% enrichment during Closed-loop operation.

Thinking about the differences between Open-loop and Closed-loop for a minute might lead a person to think that disconnecting the O2 sensor would be the way to go. You know. The imagined solution is to eliminate the O2 sensor feedback and the ECU will not know what to do. The idea is it will switch over to to a rich 'limp home' mode. Which sounds great except that isn't the way it works.

The ECU has the primary task of creating the proper exhaust constituents to properly operate the catalyst. That is its primary task, not the secondary task, the primary task. To support that objective the ECU is programmed to create the right exhaust constituents with or without O2 sensor feedback. The ECU does a much better job of that with the O2 sensor feedback than without. Running the ECU without an O2 sensor input makes Closed-loop drivability worse long term.

I wondered what happens no-O2, with and without an IAT shifting device. My 1150 runs E10 fuel here in MA so the no-O2/no-BP curve is shifted up 4% above 14.7. The histogram shows the Motronic varying the mixture in both cases.

On an 1150, the Iice air would create a curve like the lower one when set in the 20C position, O2 sensor disconnected, and running E10 fuel. Several bikes that I've tried this on have run much better and not surged. All were stock exhaust, TB balanced, valves adjusted.

I would agree that no-O2 does not create a "rich, limp home mode" on the 1150. Multiple data sets that I have taken confirm this.

The dotted lines on the charts are at 14.7:1 and 13.8:1 in both pictures.


roger 04 rt screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 08:28 AM
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:12 PM   #2925
Boxerwrench
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I take it by the no response to my question above the IICE Cool isn't ready yet?
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