ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-28-2010, 01:35 PM   #286
Ron from BC
Beastly Adventurer
 
Ron from BC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver Island
Oddometer: 1,300
Shipping...

Not wanting to get too far ahead of things but....

I'm hoping that USPS shipping will be available to your northern neighbors.

I like to avoid being pushed over a Douglas Fir and having a new one ripped by UPS/FedEx with their insane minimum brokerage fees....

__________________
'02 BMW R1150 GSA
'06 Kawasaki KL250H Super Sherpa
Ron from BC is offline  
Old 12-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #287
frogy
Studly Adventurer
 
frogy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Ballwin,MO
Oddometer: 772
Im just sayin.
frogy is offline  
Old 12-28-2010, 03:20 PM   #288
GS Addict
Pepperfool
 
GS Addict's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
Oddometer: 3,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron from BC View Post
Not wanting to get too far ahead of things but....

I'm hoping that USPS shipping will be available to your northern neighbors.

I like to avoid being pushed over a Douglas Fir and having a new one ripped by UPS/FedEx with their insane minimum brokerage fees....


+1 absof'inlootly! They always show up with their faces covered........
__________________
Old enough to know better....
Young enough to try it again
GS Addict is offline  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:27 PM   #289
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron from BC View Post
Not wanting to get too far ahead of things but....

I'm hoping that USPS shipping will be available to your northern neighbors.

I like to avoid being pushed over a Douglas Fir and having a new one ripped by UPS/FedEx with their insane minimum brokerage fees....


Well I sure want to save you from that fate, my Canadian brother!



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:29 PM   #290
Ron from BC
Beastly Adventurer
 
Ron from BC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver Island
Oddometer: 1,300
Thank you Sire...

__________________
'02 BMW R1150 GSA
'06 Kawasaki KL250H Super Sherpa
Ron from BC is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #291
mattbarn
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

Maps are primarily for steady state and catalyst operation, and merely keep the motor running between periods of leading throttle and transient throttle.

Leading throttle and transient throttle are dynamic events. The immediate (edit: i.e., current combustion cycle) mixture and enrichment quantities are based on the user inputs during the foregoing (edit: i.e., several previous) combustion cycles, and are calculated with equations that use temperature as a primary input.

I got it though, you think it's tables.


Oh, it's tables. Everything is a table. Tables are computationally cheap (unlike equations). Ever heard of the time/space tradeoff? ECUs are short on time (latency is critical) but (relatively) big on space. Thus: tables.

BTW: You should probably go tell these guys that they can't possibly make any difference changing the tables in their KTMs:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633558
mattbarn is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:00 PM   #292
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbarn View Post
Oh, it's tables. Everything is a table. Tables are computationally cheap (unlike equations). Ever heard of the time/space tradeoff? ECUs are short on time (latency is critical) but (relatively) big on space. Thus: tables.

It's entirely possible to reduce the 8 curves relevant to Transient Enrichment to a x1 table format. 8 of them I mean.

Let's say that the big ECU makers have done just that. Editing those tables would certainly change the Transient Enrichment. Acourse of those 8 tables, there's only one of them that represent a variable that changes in the real world. And that's motor temperature. So we're back at the IICE products.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbarn
BTW: You should probably go tell these guys that they can't possibly make any difference changing the tables in their KTMs:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633558

Re: BTW. I had a look around on the TuneECU website. (That product is the subject of the thread Matt linked to.) I see that KTM and other makers have provided information to allow adjustment to what I'm going to call the Base Maps. BMW or Bosch may provide that information at some point.

From what I could tell there is no Transient Enrichment adjustment going on. Only adjustments to the various Base Maps. Adjustments to those maps do have some positive effect on Leading Throttle operation.

The KTM also has a second set of servo-controlled throttle butterflies. It appears as though some of the adjustment that the users are making have an affect on those secondary butterflies.

It doesn't look like the companies that make the products understand the servo control algorithm. But that's just my guess, it would seem that if the control algorithm were understood, then they would be talking about it.

I don't want to dissuade you Matt, if you think that Transient Enrichment has been reduced to 8 or more interpolated curves that reside on the Motronic EPROM, then get in there and find them.

Take the binary EPROM data, convert it to ascii, and put it into a spreadsheet. Make a 3D vertical bar graph of the entire address space, and observe the surface formed by the top of the vertical bars. Search for areas of the surface that look like the characteristic 3D surfaces of typical ECU maps.

The map 'surfaces' will not be arranged in a proper grid. You'll have to assemble them in your mind's eye, then adjust the number of columns and rows to put the data in the right place. It's a little bit like taking a golf course green and slicing it into small strips. Shuffling those strips around and then trying to read the green based on what typical greens generally look like.

When you get to that point let me know. I'll lend a hand if you like.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:59 PM   #293
mattbarn
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Oddometer: 20
You are obviously not reading my posts. Your ideas for how this stuff works are... ridiculous. Not even in the ballpark.

Given a binary copy of a chip from a Motronic unit, I can probably provide a screenshot of the maps within minutes.

Maybe when you get to that point, I'll lend a hand.
Attached Images
 
mattbarn is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:12 PM   #294
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbarn View Post
You are obviously not reading my posts. Your ideas for how this stuff works are... ridiculous. Not even in the ballpark.

Given a binary copy of a chip from a Motronic unit, I can probably provide a screenshot of the maps within minutes.
That image is from the Motronic? What are the redacts?

I think someone posted a link to a bin EPROM file.



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:13 PM   #295
mattbarn
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Oddometer: 20
They are from a BMW car ECU. Late 90s.

I've redacted the specific addresses of the tables so as to not help my competition too much.
mattbarn is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:13 PM   #296
dutch97501
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dutch97501's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Medford Or
Oddometer: 114
Say while you gents are at it could you put a three position switch on it I can operate from the handlebar? Say WET/NORMAL/RACE.That would be great. Oh yea I just remembered. Doesn't the barometric pressure also change in the real world.
dutch97501 is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:28 PM   #297
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbarn View Post
They are from a BMW car ECU. Late 90s.

I've redacted the specific addresses of the tables so as to not help my competition too much.
Someone put up a link to the Motronic EPROM bin file several or so pages back. I think it was from an oilhead RT.



__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:41 PM   #298
mattbarn
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East Coast
Oddometer: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

Someone put up a link to the Motronic EPROM bin file several or so pages back. I think it was from an oilhead RT.


I can't find it. Point it out and we'll consider my bluff called.
mattbarn is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:47 PM   #299
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbarn View Post
I can't find it. Point it out and we'll consider my bluff called.

You sure it wouldn't help your competition too much?

Let me click back and see if I can find it. It was from RB Racing I think. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com Some true kooks out here in my neck of the woods.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Old 12-29-2010, 05:48 PM   #300
Poolside OP
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,735

Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch97501 View Post
Say while you gents are at it could you put a three position switch on it I can operate from the handlebar? Say WET/NORMAL/RACE.That would be great.
I agree, it would be. Traction control is available as an add on. Check out the Z-Fi TC from Bazzaz Performance http://www.bazzaz.net/bz1/intro/

Oh yea I just remembered. Doesn't the barometric pressure also change in the real world.

Yes it does

But since you mentioned it, the barometric, aka: ambient, pressure doesn't affect the vaporization rate of the 'wall fuel' in the intake port. The local pressure in the port does though, and that isn't related to barometric pressure.

The fuel vaporization rate is primarily responsible for the performance of Transient Enrichment, which is primarily influenced by motor temperature.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline  
Closed Thread

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014