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Old 03-14-2011, 06:59 AM   #526
CamoGreg
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Poolside, Thanks for all your work. I've followed along off and on and read the entire thread.

I have a basic understanding of what you're doing..though I still relate most of fuel mapping to carburetor terms and circuits.

I've spent my life in manufacturing and know what a PITA development can be.
But given the choice, I'll take development over production any day.

If it was me, since the development is complete, I'd turn the production over to someone else.
Take your cut and let the marketing and manufacturing guys set price points, determine production quality, advertising and their margins.

Of course I might offer a limited time buy to a few faithful that followed along in the early stages....
But that's just me.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:06 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

Yes, it will work with the catalyst. And no the bike won't get any louder, unless you change the exhaust that is.
That sounds great sir
But you didn't answer whether your device will respect the planet or not.
In Spain all cars, motorbikes and so forth, have to pass some inspection every two years and that involves a check of exhaust gases (CO), you know what I mean.
I suppose it's the same in USA, doesn't it?
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:02 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddfellow View Post
Ordered! Looking forward to my Moto-Viagra!
Thanks for your order! Thank you everyone for your orders!

Yes this first product is definitely an 'enhancement' as you say. But I want to restate that this is the first of 2 products.

This first product, the IICE Air, represents 1/3 of the total improvement.

The second product, the IICE Cool, is the other 2/3 improvement.

The two products work together for a 3/3 improvement.

The IICE Air comes in only one version, and works on all fuel injected BMW bikes.

The IICE Cool comes, or will come that is, in two versions. One version for the CANbus bikes, and the other for the non-CANbus bikes.


This info was covered you know, 30 pages ago. And I just want to be sure that it's fresh.


Jim


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Old 03-14-2011, 08:57 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

Thanks for your order! Thank you everyone for your orders!

Yes this first product is definitely an 'enhancement' as you say. But I want to restate that this is the first of 2 products.

This first product, the IICE Air, represents 1/3 of the total improvement.

The second product, the IICE Cool, is the other 2/3 improvement.

The two products work together for a 3/3 improvement.

The IICE Air comes in only one version, and works on all fuel injected BMW bikes.

The IICE Cool comes, or will come that is, in two versions. One version for the CANbus bikes, and the other for the non-CANbus bikes.


This info was covered you know, 30 pages ago. And I just want to be sure that it's fresh.


Jim


That's actually quite helpful... esp for those of us with short memories!

Would you mind reminding us of expected timeframes and pricing for the "Cool" products?
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:53 AM   #530
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Poolside

Please send me costs for oversea posting (Europe-Portugal).

thanks.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:33 AM   #531
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I'm in Order sent! Don't care about marketing hype so much. Sometimes the slickest add is selling the biggest POS cause the product can't stand on it's own.

I also want adjustability that is offered with the ICE air. I ride in varied conditions.

Can't wait for delivery!
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:26 AM   #532
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That sounds great sir
But you didn't answer whether your device will respect the planet or not.
In Spain all cars, motorbikes and so forth, have to pass some inspection every two years and that involves a check of exhaust gases (CO), you know what I mean.
I suppose it's the same in USA, doesn't it?

???
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:36 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post



The IICE Air comes in only one version, and works on all fuel injected BMW bikes.


That's pretty much what i wanted to hear, up until that point there was no clear indication that it would work on the 650 singles

I know i'm being a pain but with the other two planned modules work with the 650?

Just trying to get a little clarification that's all.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdinandus View Post

But you didn't answer whether your device will respect the planet or not.
In Spain all cars, motorbikes and so forth, have to pass some inspection every two years and that involves a check of exhaust gases (CO), you know what I mean.
I suppose it's the same in USA, doesn't it?
You're planning to operate one on the street?


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Old 03-15-2011, 01:52 PM   #535
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Absolutely

This device respects the planet by making motorcycles more fun to ride, encouraging motorcycle use and reducing the use of heavy carbon dioxide producing automobiles.

In the US, the government is not yet wasting time and resources by requiring yearly emissions testing of individual motorcycles.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:09 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonsvilleRider View Post
In the US, the government is not yet wasting time and resources by requiring yearly emissions testing of individual motorcycles.
The Federal government is not, some local governments are.

(Federal government does not require periodic testing of other vehicles either.)


But that was a bit of a sidetrack.
Getting back more towards the original topic, I'd like to see an answer to this one
Quote:
Would you mind reminding us of expected timeframes and pricing for the "Cool" products?
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:30 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottly View Post

1. If I understand this all correctly, you have plans to address the individual run conditions (tip in, tip out, etc) with individual devices?

2. Will these devices eventually interlink, or continue to work independently of each other?

3. Do these devices (some or all) produce fixed values of output, or variable?
If variable, variable by manual adjustment or adjust automatically to conditions?

4. Could you please list the distinct advantages over something like the Power Commander with auto tune?
1. Did you see the post a little ways up, Scott? That should answer the first question. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=528

2. They might eventually interlink, but only so that they may continue to function independently. Not trying to be obtuse here, really. This will come into play for the IICE Cool model, designed for the CANbus bikes.

3. It is variable by manual adjustment, to select a temperature range. Once a range is selected the device adjusts automatically to conditions.

4. Speaking about gasoline motors in general, once you get the 'fixed throttle' fueling to the Best Power mixture, and get the 'transient throttle' fueling to maintain that mixture during throttle movements, you've done everything you can do. And how you decide to get there sort of doesn't matter.

Of the two, 'transient throttle' fueling, and 'fixed throttle' fueling, getting 'transient throttle' right is more relevant and noticeable. Twice as noticeable. To compare the two, 'fixed throttle' fueling is 1/3, and 'transient throttle' fueling is 2/3.

Regarding the Power Commander (PC) specifically, I do not see any direct adjustment of 'transient throttle' fueling in their user guide. And I haven't seen any mention of it on their website. That doesn't mean the PC doesn't specifically address transient fueling, only that they don't specifically mention it on their website or user guide. Which doesn't mean they won't at some point.

There is however mention of a feature which the company refers to as an “accel pump utility" for the Power Commander products. Which claims, "increased adjustment and sensitivity ranges". I understand that to mean a manually-adjusted 'brute force fuel adder'. Which translates into 'squirt some more fuel in when the rider twists the throttle.'

I do not mean to discount their product, but an "accelerator pump utility" that is user-adjustable does not compare to the complexity, elegance, and performance of a genuine transient throttle fueling.

Transient throttle fuel control is a complicated process, and requires a very complex control algorithm. (Here is a link to a patent describing an excellent example of the process.)

If you download and read about the process, you'll see that that type of complex control is far far beyond the scope of a simple "accelerator pump utility". In addition, the shape of the eight curves for the process variables involved in the transient fuel algorithm are motor-specific. Creating those time and physics based curves is well outside the realm of a manually adjusted 'squirt-some-fuel-when-you-twist-the-throttle device'.

And just to cover the base, the curves for those process variables cannot be made using an O2 sensor. Narrow band, wideband, or the Power Commander Auto-Tune.

But, and here’s the thing, the Motronic has that fancy transient fuel algorithm built-in, and the IICE Cool accesses and manipulates that algorithm.

Scott, regarding your question 4, I don't know if I've described anything you'd consider an advantage. I'm just describing how it works.

Jim



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Poolside screwed with this post 11-06-2012 at 06:40 AM
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #538
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Any progress on the *.jpg?
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:49 PM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
You're planning to operate one on the street?

What I mean is that I did put a very good chip in the motronic of my previous 1150GS and as a consequence the motorbike diden't pass the CO test. Neither the noise test.This is the reason why I'm interested on that.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:53 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by CannonsvilleRider View Post
This device respects the planet by making motorcycles more fun to ride, encouraging motorcycle use and reducing the use of heavy carbon dioxide producing automobiles.

In the US, the government is not yet wasting time and resources by requiring yearly emissions testing of individual motorcycles.
I only have to respect the law in my country, whether I agree the policies or not
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