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Old 03-16-2011, 07:46 AM   #556
Jltrd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

That's a good question. Spoke, and several other ADV folks have asked it.

Here's the short answer. You can try running the Booster Plug or similar product, together with the upcoming IICE Cool, if you want. Though I think the adjustability of the IICE Air is a requirement when using the upcoming IICE Cool.

In high temperatures, running the Booster Plug, or a competitive product, and the IICE Cool together will have the fuel mixture too rich. But since the IICE Air is adjustable, you can run it with the IICE Cool over a broad temperature range.

You can solve that by disconnecting the Booster Plug, or other similar product you have installed, and run the IICE Cool by itself. However, doing that gives up 1/3 of the total benefit of running the IICE Air and IICE Cool together.

That is one of the reasons IICE Air is adjustable.




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Thanks for the quick reply. With the booster plug I'm not quite sure if I have the air temp sensor in the best spot. Does the IICE Air also have an air temp sensor that will need to be placed somewhere on the bike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post

It's the same, plus three.

The IICE Air is adjustable to one of 4 settings. The settings represent 4 different 'temperature offsets' of the Intake Air Temperature (IAT).

The 4 settings are:
0C offset (Uses factory-installed IAT sensor)
-10C offset
-20C offset
-30C offset


IICE Air is factory set to -20C offset.

Important note: Without the -10C adjustment, the device will not work with the future products.

At the -20C setting it performs identical to these devices:
Link to other Intake Air Temperature offset devices.

Do these settings correspond to a range of outside temperature ranges? Or would we have to try different ones until we find the one that works best? Thanks.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:09 AM   #557
Flying_Brick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
As it turns out I'm not shipping to other countries, I can't work out the banking details, customs, etc. So, for the moment you are safe.

Why don't you use ebay (with the buy it now option) and paypal?

This way you can sell overseas.

I am waiting for this product since the beginning of the thread... and froze the buying of the accelerator thing...

It looks like I have to order it.
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:39 PM   #558
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"What do the temperature offsets mean?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
The IICE Air is adjustable to one of 4 settings. The settings represent 4 different 'temperature offsets' of the Intake Air Temperature (IAT).

The 4 settings are:
0C offset (Uses factory-installed IAT sensor)
-10C offset
-20C offset
-30C offset


IICE Air is factory set to -20C offset.

Important note: Without the -10C adjustment, the device will not work with the future products.

At the -20C setting it performs identical to these devices:
Link to other Intake Air Temperature offset devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jltrd View Post

Do these settings correspond to a range of outside temperature ranges? Or would we have to try different ones until we find the one that works best? Thanks.
Good question. The four settings are offsets of the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor input to the ECU.

For example, if the outside air temperature is 30C/86F, and the IICE Air is set to a -10C offset, then the ECU thinks the air temperature is 20C/68F.

30C air temp - 10C negative offset = 20C ECU input.

The ECU gets a 'negative offset' air temperature input, and thinks the air is a little denser than it actually is.

It responds by richening the mixture during 'leading throttle acceleration'.

And if you ask me what all that means I'm gonna smack you and point you to the first post in this thread, to the list of links to informative posts.


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Poolside screwed with this post 03-16-2011 at 08:02 PM
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:32 PM   #559
johnjen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Brick View Post
Why don't you use ebay (with the buy it now option) and paypal?

This way you can sell overseas.

I am waiting for this product since the beginning of the thread... and froze the buying of the accelerator thing...

It looks like I have to order it.
As a possible work around

Do you know anyone in the US? If yes have them buy one for you and then ship it to you. An easy way to get around this bump in the road.

JJ
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:31 AM   #560
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Black epoxy!
Oh no!
Are you sure you aren't designing a guitar effects pedal? LOL!
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:34 AM   #561
Flying_Brick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
As a possible work around

Do you know anyone in the US? If yes have them buy one for you and then ship it to you. An easy way to get around this bump in the road.

JJ
Thank you JJ for the idea. But I dont have any contacts in the States.

I believe postage costs to Europe fur such a device will be around 15$ to 25$ (with and without insurance), because it is not an heavy gadjet.

I buy books from US amazon and ebay, and books are heavier.

And I have paypal.
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:48 AM   #562
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"Does the location of the sensor make a difference?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jltrd View Post

With the booster plug I'm not quite sure if I have the air temp sensor in the best spot. Does the IICE Air also have an air temp sensor that will need to be placed somewhere on the bike?
I have been waiting for that question "Does the location of the air temperature sensor make a difference?" The short answer is, no, it doesn't.

When the bike is moving, the sensor always sees the ambient air temperature.

It's easy to imagine that putting the sensor up near the steering head gives it a supply of cool air. Though just because it's easy to imagine doesn't make it true. I admit I wanted it to be true.

Seems like a reasonable question. I mean, seeing as how some of the competitor products have the sensor mounted up near the steering head/instrument cluster. Of course I had to find out.

It was a mild evening last August. The plan was to make a high speed run on the freeway, then take some temp measurements while the bike was idling. Ambient temperature was 70F, and since it was evening there would be no influence from solar radiant heating.

I set up for the test and took off on a run up the 405 freeway from Long Beach to UCLA/Westwood. The 28 miles of freeway in 19 minutes, so the motor was good and warm.

I pulled off the fwy and quickly pulled into a waiting garage. The door was shut to eliminate any breeze, and the bike was left idling on the centerstand while we started logging measurements.

In preparation for the experiment, I had relocated the original Intake Air Temp sensor from the airbox to the area in front of the steering head.

First thing after pulling into the garage the bike is put on the centerstand, then pull off the saddle and connect to a waiting GS-911 and laptop to take temp readings. No cooling fan was used.

The setup process took no more than 30 seconds. The ambient temp in the garage was 70F but already the IAT reading was 86F. Remember, this was the ECU's reading from the relocated IAT sensor, mounted in front of the steering head.

The motor idled along happily with the headers turning red while the ECU gave these temp readings via the GS-911.

 INTAKE
AIR TEMP  OIL TEMP
   86.0    228.2
   87.8    230.0
   91.4    230.0
   93.2    231.8
   93.2    233.6
   95.0    235.4
   96.8    237.2
   98.6    239.0
   98.6    242.6
  100.4    242.6
  100.4    244.4
  102.2    244.4
  102.2    248.0
  104.0    248.0
  104.0    249.8
  105.8    249.8
  107.6    253.4


I shut it down at that point, figuring 250 degrees was hot enough for the oil.

So there it is. Ambient air temp was 70, and after a few minutes the relocated sensor was reading 38 degrees higher at 107.6

For comparison, I did this experiment 2 more times. Once with the IAT sensor in the factory location in the airbox. And once more with the sensor resting on top of the airbox, with the saddle in place.

Result: The ECU sees the same temperature regardless where the sensor is mounted.

Wait, that's not entirely true. With the sensor placed on a table 5 feet away, the ECU always reads the same intake temperature. (I actually did that with an extension wire on the sensor.)

Conclusions: No matter where you put the sensor, there's no way to escape the heat when you come to a stop.

And once the bike starts moving, the hot air that collects when stopped is immediately replaced by moving ambient air.

When the bike is moving, the sensor always sees the ambient air temperature.



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Poolside screwed with this post 11-08-2011 at 12:34 AM
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:20 AM   #563
grpweld
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Lucky for us we don't ride at a stop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
I have been waiting for that question "Does the location of the air temperature sensor make a difference?" The short answer is, no, it doesn't.

It's easy to imagine that putting the sensor up near the steering head gives it a supply of cool air. Though just because it's easy to imagine doesn't make it true. I admit I wanted it to be true.

Seems like a reasonable question. I mean, seeing as how some of the competitor products have the sensor mounted up near the steering head/instrument cluster. Of course I had to find out.

It was a mild evening last August. The plan was to make a high speed run on the freeway, then take some temp measurements while the bike was idling. Ambient temperature was 70F, and since it was evening there would be no influence from solar radiant heating.

I set up for the test and took off on a run up the 405 freeway from Long Beach to UCLA/Westwood. The 28 miles of freeway in 19 minutes, so the motor was good and warm.

I pulled off the fwy and quickly pulled into a waiting garage. The door was shut to eliminate any breeze, and the bike was left idling on the centerstand while we started logging measurements.

In preparation for the experiment, I had relocated the original Intake Air Temp sensor from the airbox to the area in front of the steering head.

First thing after pulling into the garage the bike is put on the centerstand, then pull off the saddle and connect to a waiting GS-911 and laptop to take temp readings. No cooling fan was used.

The setup process took no more than 30 seconds. The ambient temp in the garage was 70F but already the IAT reading was 86F. Remember, this was the ECU's reading from the relocated IAT sensor, mounted in front of the steering head.

The motor idled along happily with the headers turning red while the ECU gave these temp readings via the GS-911.

   IAT         OIL
   86.0    228.2
   87.8    230.0
   91.4    230.0
   93.2    231.8
   93.2    233.6
   95.0    235.4
   96.8    237.2
   98.6    239.0
   98.6    242.6
100.4    242.6
100.4    244.4
102.2    244.4
102.2    248.0
104.0    248.0
104.0    249.8
105.8    249.8
107.6    253.4

I shut it down at that point, figuring 250 degrees was hot enough for the oil.

So there it is. Ambient air temp was 70, and after a few minutes the relocated sensor was reading 38 degrees higher at 107.6

For comparison, I did this experiment 2 more times. Once with the IAT sensor in the factory location in the airbox. And once more with the sensor resting on top of the airbox, with the saddle in place.

Result: The ECU sees the same temperature regardless where the sensor is mounted.

Wait, that's not entirely true. With the sensor placed on a table 5 feet away, the ECU always reads the same intake temperature. (I actually did that with an extension wire on the sensor.)

Conclusion: No matter where you put the sensor, there's no way to escape the heat when you come to a stop.


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Old 03-17-2011, 10:47 AM   #564
Johnny Dakar
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Will a wet air sensor (more efficient cooling) affect how it runs?
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:39 AM   #565
DC,Chad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
As it turns out I'm not shipping to other countries, I can't work out the banking details, customs, etc. So, for the moment you are safe.

........there has to be a way around this
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:54 PM   #566
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Quick question

I am very interested in your product however the timing is all wrong for me as we just had a baby girl, the question is will you be doing a second batch of these or is this a one time only offer.
Thanks
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:02 PM   #567
johnjen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSchad View Post
........there has to be a way around this
See post # 559

JJ
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:26 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grpweld View Post

Lucky for us we don't ride at a stop!
Thanks, I forgot to mention. I somehow thought it was obvious.

When the bike is moving, the sensor always sees the ambient air temperature.

No matter where the sensor is, it always gets ambient air temp. No matter if it's under the seat, behind the fuel tank panel, inside the airbox, or up in front of the steering head. It's all the same temp when the bike is moving.

Once the bike starts moving, the hot air that collects when stopped is immediately replaced by moving ambient air.


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Poolside screwed with this post 03-17-2011 at 07:56 PM
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:49 PM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Dakar View Post

Will a wet air sensor (more efficient cooling) affect how it runs?
If it's under water, yes.



Hey JD, did you order one of these yet?


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Old 03-17-2011, 06:56 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post

Black epoxy!
Oh no!
Are you sure you aren't designing a guitar effects pedal? LOL!
It's a good 'universal enclosure'.

I don't care if you see what's inside, it just needs to be sealed, and held in place. In this case, epoxy is just the ticket.

I guess I could have used a NEMA 4X enclosure. But it would be 12 times the size, and cost much more.


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