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Old 11-27-2010, 10:43 AM   #76
configurationspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattis
Messers Poolside & al.
Will this device be vailable shortly or will you taunt us further?
Can you start off buying for instance the AIT sensors and then upgrade?
Knowing Poolside, this is a very finely-crafted marketing scheme, so that when he's whetted our appetites and got us raving mad with lust, just at that moment the thread in the Vendors Forum will appear.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:50 AM   #77
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Shouldn't the title of the thread be "fine tuning the GS"? Don't get me wrong, I am all for fine tuning any setup but where's the hot rodding?
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:54 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo
Cool! At 32,000 miles my '09 GSA runs fantastic but I am very interested in a little enhancement.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
Shouldn't the title of the thread be "fine tuning the GS"? Don't get me wrong, I am all for fine tuning any setup but where's the hot rodding?
To me fine tuning is about making adjustments to the existing stock equipment to dial them into the 'sweet spot'.

Hot rodding is about adding external modifications to fix or improve stock functions with 'better' or more dialed in functions. Which is where we're going with all of this.

For many the small 'problems' built into the EFI are just inconsistencies, but to those who know what and how an engine could or should respond these are the result of marketing and emissions compromises that have altered the EFI to meet those 'requirements'. For those who know how an engine should respond they are a continual source of aggravation and frustration.

And for some the only way to really appreciate these differences, is to experience them in a before and after sorta way. Then the improvements, by comparison, will stand out as clear as day.

It's sorta like if you're gunna play, play. Don't just half assed run around and pretend to play.

Or as Yoda said, do, or do not, there is no try.

JJ
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:37 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by configurationspace
Knowing Poolside, this is a very finely-crafted marketing scheme, so that when he's whetted our appetites and got us raving mad with lust, just at that moment the thread in the Vendors Forum will appear.
That there is marketing GENIUS.

Thanks for the plan of action.

JJ
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:47 PM   #81
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Quote:
This effort was hinted at years ago in a thread that both of us participated in where I asked for more details concerning the operational parameters. My quest was outlined in post #7 of this thread;

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...osition+sensor
Man, that was a lot of homework...good stuff tho.

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Old 11-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
To me fine tuning is about making adjustments to the existing stock equipment to dial them into the 'sweet spot'.

Hot rodding is about adding external modifications to fix or improve stock functions with 'better' or more dialed in functions. Which is where we're going with all of this.

For many the small 'problems' built into the EFI are just inconsistencies, but to those who know what and how an engine could or should respond these are the result of marketing and emissions compromises that have altered the EFI to meet those 'requirements'. For those who know how an engine should respond they are a continual source of aggravation and frustration.

And for some the only way to really appreciate these differences, is to experience them in a before and after sorta way. Then the improvements, by comparison, will stand out as clear as day.

It's sorta like if you're gunna play, play. Don't just half assed run around and pretend to play.

Or as Yoda said, do, or do not, there is no try.

JJ
Well, I guess we have different definitions of "hot rodding". That's fine but I do think tweaking the injection and calling it "hot rodding" is a bit misleading. The results of fine tuning the mapping are going to be a smoother engine and maybe a bit more power via a better mixture. IMO, hot rodding is about increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency through weight reduction, friction reduction, porting, cam timing, compression, combustion chamber shape and the like. Unless the injection mapping is WAY off (which I don't think it is), the increases in performance through changing the mapping won't be that great. Having said that, I CAN appreciate subtle improvements! They all add up! Personally, I don't see how some deal with how their bikes surge. Completely eleminating that is more than a subtle difference but I still don't call that "hot rodding".
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:10 PM   #83
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Change my name to Smiling Bob!
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:00 PM   #84
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With all respect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
Well, I guess we have different definitions of "hot rodding". That's fine but I do think tweaking the injection and calling it "hot rodding" is a bit misleading. The results of fine tuning the mapping are going to be a smoother engine and maybe a bit more power via a better mixture. IMO, hot rodding is about increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency through weight reduction, friction reduction, porting, cam timing, compression, combustion chamber shape and the like. Unless the injection mapping is WAY off (which I don't think it is), the increases in performance through changing the mapping won't be that great. Having said that, I CAN appreciate subtle improvements! They all add up! Personally, I don't see how some deal with how their bikes surge. Completely eleminating that is more than a subtle difference but I still don't call that "hot rodding".
IMO, your post contributes nothing whatsoever to this thread, and I, for one, would appreciate it if you would obsess about something else, somewhere else.

Just sayin'.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:53 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrysingfeenix
IMO, your post contributes nothing whatsoever to this thread, and I, for one, would appreciate it if you would obsess about something else, somewhere else.

Just sayin'.
I think pointing out that the thread title is promising something that can't be delivered is very relevant. (That is, at least, the way some people define things.) Especially when it is for a price. I really do wish them all the luck in the world because even subtle improvements are improvements nonetheless but why do they need to call their future product something that it isn't? I would be afraid that it might set people up for disappointment. I might very well be preventing a heartache!

With all due respect and just saying, I am not obsessing at all. I am having fun bringing up what I think is a good point. IMO, your above post contributes nothing at all to this thread. Besides, THIS forum IS for obsessing about things Oilhead Boxer related.
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:36 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft
Well, I guess we have different definitions of "hot rodding". That's fine but I do think tweaking the injection and calling it "hot rodding" is a bit misleading. The results of fine tuning the mapping are going to be a smoother engine and maybe a bit more power via a better mixture. IMO, hot rodding is about increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency through weight reduction, friction reduction, porting, cam timing, compression, combustion chamber shape and the like. Unless the injection mapping is WAY off (which I don't think it is), the increases in performance through changing the mapping won't be that great. Having said that, I CAN appreciate subtle improvements! They all add up! Personally, I don't see how some deal with how their bikes surge. Completely eleminating that is more than a subtle difference but I still don't call that "hot rodding".
We choose the words hot rodding because it kept the title short, was evocative of what we are doing and is intriguing. Not because it's an exact description. Sorry if that caused some confusion.

And those who do dive into this thread will realize in short order just what we are talking about sooner rather than later just by reading the thread.

And this is ADVrider.

We do things a little differently in this corner of the sandbox.
And exactitude in all things and all ways usually isn't one we rigorously strive to maintain. There is a fun factor involved that tends to lighten things up a tad.

So while we may not meet your expectations of what hot rodding means most will understand what the point of this thread is all about. Sorta along the lines of you can't please everybody all the time.

JJ
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The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 11-27-2010, 06:51 PM   #87
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supershaft...

PM sent
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:09 PM   #88
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen

8< snip----

And this is ADVrider.

We do things a little differently in this corner of the sandbox.
And exactitude in all things and all ways usually isn't one we rigorously strive to maintain. There is a fun factor involved that tends to lighten things up a tad.

So while we may not meet your expectations of what hot rodding means most will understand what the point of this thread is all about. Sorta along the lines of you can't please everybody all the time.

JJ
I appreciate you guys digging into this.

Here's my definition of hot rodding.

Hot Rodding (pronounced hawt rah-ding) - To make modifications to an engine and supporting components with the sole purpose of making shit work the way it was meant to work before EPA, bean counters, and non-mechanically inclined people want things to be... (ant - vanilla, generic)

I'm a proponent of hot rodding. My '05 Harley runs as it should have from the factory, and yes it probably doesn't make the environazi's happy. It runs better than stock in all aspects, gets better mileage than stock, runs cooler, passes semi's like they're standing still. Double the stock horsepower and torque. I would LOVE it if my GS would run better. Mileage is about the same as my modded Harley yet it's a smaller engine in a lighter package. Clearly there is room for improvement.

My biggest gripe with EFI modifications is the harsher (gritty) quality that usually comes with it. I hope this is a consideration in your design.

bob
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:32 PM   #89
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new mod........

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
We choose the words hot rodding because it kept the title short, was evocative of what we are doing and is intriguing. Not because it's an exact description. Sorry if that caused some confusion.

And those who do dive into this thread will realize in short order just what we are talking about sooner rather than later just by reading the thread.

And this is ADVrider.

We do things a little differently in this corner of the sandbox.
And exactitude in all things and all ways usually isn't one we rigorously strive to maintain. There is a fun factor involved that tends to lighten things up a tad.

So while we may not meet your expectations of what hot rodding means most will understand what the point of this thread is all about. Sorta along the lines of you can't please everybody all the time.

JJ

Standing by with interest. In my view, you're really talking about 'free' horsepower -- no engine disassembly, no lumpy cams, etc. My HP2, is stock save a full Akrapovic and new air filter and I must say, it runs wonderfully. I'm assuming dyno trials will back up the product and ridden normally, the milage will improve as the mixture is corrected for optimal rather than smog running.....and you likely have already guessed how green I am.....Bruce
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:19 AM   #90
tagesk
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Question

I find that adjusting the valves to any given clearance isn't that hard.
Getting those pesky wires to pull equally, also as they are pulled upon, is not at all easy. If possible at all.

How will misalignment here influence the end result?
I guess the question is: More or less than today.

[TaSK]
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