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Old 12-02-2010, 12:07 PM   #121
def
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I like the terminology Hotrodding when used in this context. If you think hotrodding does not involve improving fuel delivery vs. engine requirements then you had better speak to Vic Edelbrock.

What these fellas are doing is attempting to take an already acceptable fuel delivery scheme and improve on it. And while their efforts may not ad bundles of power, they may end up with a nicely refined fuel delivery system from which many of us will benefit.

And no, the GS will not set world speed records, the reason many of you object to the hotrodding terminology, but I believe Hotrodding is exactly what these folks are doing to the BMW boxer engine...it just involves a computer, not loud pipes, wild cams, exotic engine modifications, etc., although, I would like to see a boxer engine modified using this approach.

But, if you object strongly to the term Hotrodding, what else would you call it?

How 'bout a poll to define the work outlined herein or to invent a new term for improving boxer engine performance?

Anyone? I like tekboxing as opposed to kick boxing...

As for me, if I ever disassemble my boxer engine, I'll blueprint it upon reassembly...and I will call it hotrodding my boxer...Oh, and I'll install the new fueling maps developed by JJ and his colleagues.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:10 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post



Very nice.....almost makes me cry....those period Brit bikes were wonderful!

Who made the RCM?
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:56 PM   #123
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Frame, swing arm, tank and body parts all fabricated by Ken. Including the beautiful triple clamps.

Ceriani forks and hubs original aftermarket race kit from the 60's.

Engine - new english castings machined from blanks by Ken and the cam box was fabricated by him from a blank as well. Piston made by Ken, Carrillo rod

Gearbox is a TT from New Zealand.

It all works very very well.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:05 PM   #124
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
Frame, swing arm, tank and body parts all fabricated by Ken. Including the beautiful triple clamps.

Ceriani forks and hubs original aftermarket race kit from the 60's.

Engine - new english castings machined from blanks by Ken and the cam box was fabricated by him from a blank as well. Piston made by Ken, Carrillo rod

Gearbox is a TT from New Zealand.

It all works very very well.
Is the engine lower end ball bearings or automotive insert style?

You have what I would call a very advanced old school race motorcycle. Derek Minter, Dick Mann and Hap Alzina would approve.

At what track do you compete?

def screwed with this post 12-02-2010 at 02:14 PM
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:24 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by def View Post
Is the engine lower end ball bearings or automotive insert style?

You have what I would call a very advanced old school race motorcycle. Derek Minter, Dick Mann and Hap Alzina would approve.

At what track do you compete?
Roller bearing bottom end. And, thanks, I think they would approve. Geoff Monty just passed away (93) but he did get a chance to see pics of the bike in Classic bike.

We race in AHRMA in the US and VRRA in Canada at Mosport. In the US we race From Grattan in Mich down to Daytona and Barber in Alabama. The pics were taken at Grattan and testing here in Toronto.

We are looking to figure out ($$$) how to get it to the Manx GP in the Isle of Man this summer.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:30 PM   #126
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Dean View Post
Roller bearing bottom end. And, thanks, I think they would approve. Geoff Monty just passed away (93) but he did get a chance to see pics of the bike in Classic bike.

We race in AHRMA in the US and VRRA in Canada at Mosport. In the US we race From Grattan in Mich down to Daytona and Barber in Alabama. The pics were taken at Grattan and testing here in Toronto.

We are looking to figure out ($$$) how to get it to the Manx GP in the Isle of Man this summer.
I have not yet attended IOM TT week...I want to go there one day.

When you are next at Barber MSP, let me know. I live 20 minutes away. I wanna see (and hear) yer Beezer first hand.

Are there still any Witworth fasteners on the bike (Heh-heh). Boxer guys have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:39 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
I have not yet attended IOM TT week...I want to go there one day.

When you are next at Barber MSP, let me know. I live 20 minutes away. I wanna see (and hear) yer Beezer first hand.

Are there still any Witworth fasteners on the bike (Heh-heh). Boxer guys have no idea what I'm talking about.
All engine fasteners are Witworth... the rest are metric... makes it tough to grab the wrenches at times for me but for Ken it is second nature.

I'll keep in touch for Barber - the big Vintage Festival is in the fall every year - a must do if you are that close.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:09 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Fuel injection engineers and s/w guys need a specific set of terms that match up with the functions (sub-routines) that they code. So some of the terms are not in common usage.

Tip in and tip out are 2 such terms.

They refer to
increasing the throttle angle (tip in)
and decreasing the throttle angle (tip out)
or
makes the butterfly more open (tip in)
and makes the butterfly less open (tip out)

We will go into more of the inner functioning of our EFI systems in due course. So forgive us for not answering your question straight away.
The answer is involved and in order to answer it fully we need to setup some baseline terms and functionality first.
And we'd rather do it correctly once rather than piecemeal a bunch of times.

JJ
So this would benefit those of us that are not necessarily looking for peak HP gains but would like to get better throttle response across the whole RPM range?
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:35 PM   #129
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Oh boy, this is gonna be good....I can just tell....JJ and Poolside will be boxer heros, maybe even recognized at the Emmys, or the Academy Awards.

Can't wait for the next installment.........



Hey fellas, I'll be happy to write your acceptance speech...

"I would like to thank the academy for this honor.....blah-blah, etc."
Don't forget JVB if he does the DVD..........
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:18 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdreama View Post
So this would benefit those of us that are not necessarily looking for peak HP gains but would like to get better throttle response across the whole RPM range?
Yes
and more.

JJ
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:22 PM   #131
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Good throttle response IS horsepower. The difference between poor throttle response and good throttle response, is horsepower.


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Poolside screwed with this post 12-03-2010 at 03:56 AM Reason: Completed the thought
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:03 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdreama View Post
So this would benefit those of us that are not necessarily looking for peak HP gains but would like to get better throttle response across the whole RPM range?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
Yes
and more.

JJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Good throttle response IS horsepower. The difference between poor throttle response and good throttle response, is horsepower.

To me the throttle response on oil/hex GS bikes is too good at low RPM, almost like a light switch in slow/technical going, which makes the rider have to concentrate very hard on throttle application.

There is also a real cut-off when rolling off throttle beyond a certain point ( I believe this is a fuel economy/pollution control measure), which if you're not careful can really upset the bike's balance when riding hard/fast in in the twisties.

The new OHC motor is much better in these respects, so if you guys can come up with something that makes the throttle easier to manage on the older bikes, I am all for it!

.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:22 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visian View Post
To me the throttle response on oil/hex GS bikes is too good at low RPM, almost like a light switch in slow/technical going, which makes the rider have to concentrate very hard on throttle application.
I know what you're talking about. That 'light switch' throttle is caused by poor initial throttle response.

When the throttle is advanced (Tip-in), there is an initial dead spot where the motor actually makes less horsepower. Then after a bit more throttle, wham! it all comes in at once.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Visian View Post
There is also a real cut-off when rolling off throttle beyond a certain point ( I believe this is a fuel economy/pollution control measure), which if you're not careful can really upset the bike's balance when riding hard/fast in in the twisties.
Oh yes, that's a good one. Another name for that is Overrun Fuel Cutoff, and it does exactly what you said.


The second device we have in the works fixes both of those issues. The dead spot at throttle Tip-in, and the Overrun Fuel Cutoff



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Old 12-03-2010, 07:45 AM   #134
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My heart fills with lust each time I check Control Panel and see that you've posted, Poolside. Can't wait to see what you come up with. Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:22 PM   #135
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He's really good with this shit. He has it down to the point that he sees the math models as dynamic interactions, not just as numbers in a formula.

JJ
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