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Old 11-19-2010, 06:40 PM   #1
yellowbirdrs OP
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Thumb The Ducati plastic fuel tank lawsuit

Its about dam time.
the lawsuit http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/11/19/Ducati.pdf
You’ve probably heard talk of the Ducati deforming plastic fuel tank problem by now. The thinking is that ethanol in American gasoline causes the tanks to deform, in some cases compromising their mounts or fuel lines, leading to potential safety issues. Owners of many plastic tank-equipped Ducatis like the SportClassics, Streetfighter, 848 and Monster have documented many cases of deformation. Ducati North America’s been replacing the tanks with identical ones under warranty for up to five years after the bikes are purchased, but hasn’t delivered what many effected owners feel is a permanent solution. Now, a class action lawsuit has been filed in federal court to try and force them to do just that. You’ll find the full text of the lawsuit below.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...-tank-lawsuit/
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:44 PM   #2
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This will be interesting.
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:44 AM   #3
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Excuse me, but why the hell aren't they suing the idiotic people that allowed us to have worse gas mileage, ruined motors and, now, gas tanks that weren't meant to be filled up with this ethanol crap which is nothing more than a subsidy for the corn conglomerates? Why sue Ducati?
Now they're talking about allowing 15% ethanol, what do you think that's gonna do to our motors?

Oh, well, we're just the stupid consumers, right!?
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:08 AM   #4
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Can you coat plastic tanks to protect from ethanol? My ktm's tank is so bad that I can't line up the bolt holes any more.
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4d
Can you coat plastic tanks to protect from ethanol? My ktm's tank is so bad that I can't line up the bolt holes any more.
Actually, I have no idea, what I seem to remember is that BMW (and surely several other manufacturers) already do have a coating in the tank, the problem they're having is that, that coating can't withstand the effects of the ethanol. To add insult to injury it's not "just" a motorcycle problem, from reliable sources I heard that a BMW car shop had a broken down 3 series and with no signs of mechanical failures they checked the contents of the gas tank and found "over 15% ethanol" in the gas. So there!
It's shite and we're being footed the bill twice
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:07 AM   #6
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I recall reading about similar deformations of Moto Guzzi plastic fuel tanks ,as well.

Could get expensive if lawsuit results in recalls, etc...

As a magnetic tankbag user, I vote for steel.
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:55 AM   #7
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The coat is not effective just extend the tank life but not a solution.
The problem here is Ducati in some cases change the tanks under warranty and extend the tank warranty to 5yr but the problem here is:
The Sportclassic is now off the production line that means Ducati only carries spares parts for 5yr more (accordin to International law) then where are we find a tank ????? also Ducati charge almost $2k dlls. for a gas tank today if you don't get the free one and these new tanks only last for 1-2 yrs.
So you need to spend the 25% of the bike value in tanks every 2yrs.
You risk you and your bike to catch a fire or are least be in a risk of a potential accident.
I don't care who allow to add ethanol to the gas I don't care who allow them to sell the bikes here I just want a final solution to ride my bike or collect her.
other wise I guess is time to sell her.
My SC1000s with less than 2k on the clock and going for her 3er gas tank
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offblnz
Excuse me, but why the hell aren't they suing the idiotic people that allowed us to have worse gas mileage, ruined motors and, now, gas tanks that weren't meant to be filled up with this ethanol crap which is nothing more than a subsidy for the corn conglomerates? Why sue Ducati?
Now they're talking about allowing 15% ethanol, what do you think that's gonna do to our motors?

Oh, well, we're just the stupid consumers, right!?
The December issue of Snow-Tech (sleds) magazine says the E15 is now EPA approved, ready to rammed down our throats.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbirdrs
The coat is not effective just extend the tank life but not a solution.
The problem here is Ducati in some cases change the tanks under warranty and extend the tank warranty to 5yr but the problem here is:
The Sportclassic is now off the production line that means Ducati only carries spares parts for 5yr more (accordin to International law) then where are we find a tank ????? also Ducati charge almost $2k dlls. for a gas tank today if you don't get the free one and these new tanks only last for 1-2 yrs.
So you need to spend the 25% of the bike value in tanks every 2yrs.
You risk you and your bike to catch a fire or are least be in a risk of a potential accident.
I don't care who allow to add ethanol to the gas I don't care who allow them to sell the bikes here I just want a final solution to ride my bike or collect her.
other wise I guess is time to sell her.
My SC1000s with less than 2k on the clock and going for her 3er gas tank
OK, so when all of you Ducati owners say 'fuck it', throw up your hands and decided to sell these little Italian gems, make sure you list them for sale in the Canadian Flea market section.
We still get 94 octane ethenol free gas for sale here!
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:37 PM   #10
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Note that class hasn't been approved, that's a major hurdle before this will really have any teeth. Not saying it won't be approved, just that there are likely means by which Ducati may be able to defeat class certification.

A somewhat unusual complaint - plaintiff filing in federal court under CAFA...

I suggested last year that the supposedly defendant-friendly CAFA was not so obviously defendant friendly and would be used offensively by plaintiffs to originate claims in federal court (which, combined with Shady Grove, could be quite handy at times).

How are the plastic tanks on cages holding up? Any BMW bikes have plastic tanks with these issues?

For what its worth I love plastic tanks in general - I find them more comfortable, more damage-resistant and suspect they are safer. They also quite handily don't rust :)

I'm sympathetic to Offblnz's remarks (though of course suing congress for making stupid laws could get a bit tricky, but if possible, would provide an endless source of business for me :lol)

Where's Jarvis?
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:41 PM   #11
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Yeah but is there any actual evidence that ethanol is the cause or just conjecture? I mean ethanol in U.S. gasoline is nothing new - some parts of the country have had E10 since the early '80s. You'd like to think that tank manufacturers would know to take it into consideration by now. Lots of cars have plastic tanks too but I've not heard of similar issues with those tanks.

Sounds like a bunch of people are ready to blame ethanol on principle just because they don't like it as opposed to investigating the actual cause.

It might just be that Ducati builds a shitty plastic gas tank. Do non-U.S. Ducatis have this problem as well?
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offblnz
To add insult to injury it's not "just" a motorcycle problem, from reliable sources I heard that a BMW car shop had a broken down 3 series and with no signs of mechanical failures they checked the contents of the gas tank and found "over 15% ethanol" in the gas. So there!
It's shite and we're being footed the bill twice
That's probably just some idiot that filled up his BMW with E85.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:58 PM   #13
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E fuel wasn't virtually mandated untill a few years ago and it certainly wasn't common. I suspect most folks with ducaties avoided it just like they avoid E85 now.

I've no clue re E and the duc tanks, though I'd be surprised if that's not the issue. I've seen some reports done by EAA types testing E fuel compatibility with various aircraft tank sealants and such - it definitely is different from regular fuel (and incompatible with things regular fuel is compatible with).

In any event, the duc lawsuit doesn't seem to hinge on this question.
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Old 11-20-2010, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikePilot
E fuel wasn't virtually mandated untill a few years ago and it certainly wasn't common. I suspect most folks with ducaties avoided it just like they avoid E85 now.
Yeah I think it was mostly in/around urban areas in years past. I grew up in Virginia outside of DC and seem to remember seeing the stickers on the pumps way back in the day.

Then in the early 2000's I lived in western Massachusetts and seem to remember seeing them there too, though MA seems to always follow CA's lead on fuel/emissions-related things.

Point being cars/motorcycles from the early '80s on should be built to handle E10 fuel if they were being sold in the U.S.

Usually the owner's manual points out the allowed types of fuels. For example, my '00 W650 manual says to use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 87 (by the (RON+MON)/2 method used in the U.S.) and goes on to specifically state that "gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol, also known as 'gasohol,'...is approved for use. They also say to never use a gasoline with more than 5% methanol and you can use gas containing up to 15% MTBE though that has gone out of fashion since CA started finding it in groundwater.

Ha, they also make a note to "never store [the motorcycle] with gasohol in the fuel system." They recommend you drain all fuel from the tank and carbs before storage.
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The Jerk screwed with this post 11-20-2010 at 02:11 PM
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Old 11-20-2010, 02:37 PM   #15
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Hmm, I also grew up and have lived in NoVA ('85-07, '10-present - Alexandria and Fairfax) and don't remember seeing E fuel until roughly '06-ish I think (and know I didn't start using it till then 'cause I had to remap my finely tuned TL1000S to run right on the crap).

I don't know, but I suspect that many mfg's untill recently probably didn't pay attention to ethonal compatibility or just said not to use it in the manual. I don't have a gas-burning cage - maybe I'll have to steal the wife's car manual sometime and see what it says My street legal bikes all came with steel tanks. I haven't seen any plastic issues with E10 in my acerbis or oem plastic tanks on the off road/dual sport bikes though.

Interesting about the W650 manual. I wonder if "storage" is specified - is Kawasaki saying drain the bike before parking it for a year, week, overnight?


On a different note, does anyone know which firm Ducati will be tapping to handle this litigation?
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