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Old 04-27-2011, 12:16 AM   #46
DirtJack OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uller View Post
That sure looks like the same pump....



Anyone with an extra $150 who would like to perform an experiment?

Edit: Scratch that..... I called California Cycle Works to ask them about the pump and what their return policy would be if it didn't fit. They offered to send it to me without payment to see if it works. I'm so stoked....

I'll post on this thread and the Megathread if it does fit once I get it. I wasn't planning on going into the tank again but if this works it will be so worth it.

Huge thanks to AustinJake for giving the suggestion/link!!!!!!!!!
What is the pressure spec on this pump? The OEM spec is 3.3 - 3.7 BAR (48 - 54 PSI).
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:36 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Visigothic View Post
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uller
I paused when I read the theory too and contemplated doing the same ..... until I: a - remembered that Visigothic doesn't have a 690 and hasn't been into its tank or pump assembly, b - estimated that you would have to be down to about a liter of fuel for the pump to be exposed and c - thought that if in that situation the fuel would still be sloshing around inside the housing which would cool the pump almost as well as the return line might



Yes I am BIKELESS at the moment except for the kids Baja doodlebug I get my fix on after workeeerrr?

I did some detail looking at the pics in a previous post. It looks possible that the fuel level can end up below the pump level when near empty, yes about a litre.

For this theory to work it would mean that irrespective of throttle position some fuel is always being sent back to the housing to cool the pump. That also means the regulator is critical in keeping the pump cool. i.e. bad regulator means burned out pump at near empty but only then. If one rides with a half full tank all the time they may not notice any thing or not have a failure even with a bad regulator because the pump is still covered with fuel to cool it. Or in another way , only when near empty with repeated running combined with a bad regulator could you burn the pump up.

Now in addition if the fuel regulator is bad, how much of an effect does it have on the injector system? combine a pump that is over heating and beginning to fail, causing low fuel pressure to the FI, also causing lower return cooling etc. etc etc. Think Chernobyl on a small scale, a cascade effect with the bike running worse by the hour. A fuel psi guage would be nice.

Its just an idea but what do I know I got to ride a Doodle Bug for now.

Just thought I'd take a SWAG at it.

Now for the next lesson, we will debate the logic of the statement

"I always lie". anyone, anyone, anyone at all


Read a little better, He said those weren't the 690 pumps, they were in different cars.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:17 AM   #48
Uller
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Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
What is the pressure spec on this pump? The OEM spec is 3.3 - 3.7 BAR (48 - 54 PSI).
That is currently the big unknown.........

This is a pressure test on an 08 Husky TE Pump. I don't know who did it or how accurate their pressure gauge is. I got it from a post on Thumpertalk.


Does anyone know what the negative (if any) consequences of running at 5 psi less than spec would be?

Uller screwed with this post 04-27-2011 at 11:27 AM
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:21 AM   #49
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Was that pressure read before or after the regulator? If it was before then it may not work for the 690, but if it was after, there is hope!
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:33 AM   #50
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Here is a post on the repair of the Husky fuel pump system. (notice in the pic that there isn't a return line that goes directly to the pump itself. It is the fuel in the tank which cools the internal pump.....)

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=220273
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:35 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
Was that pressure read before or after the regulator? If it was before then it may not work for the 690, but if it was after, there is hope!
The pic has the gauge outside of the bikes tank and looking at their system I would put a fair sized wager that the reading is from the line going to the Throttle Body. So, that would make it after the regulator.

Uller screwed with this post 04-27-2011 at 12:01 PM
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:54 AM   #52
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:05 PM   #53
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I'd test the pressure on my bike.... only I'm missing special tool #'s 2 & 3.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:30 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uller View Post
.... I called California Cycle Works to ask them about the pump and what their return policy would be if it didn't fit. They offered to send it to me without payment to see if it works. I'm so stoked....

I'll post on this thread and the Megathread if it does fit once I get it. I wasn't planning on going into the tank again but if this works it will be so worth it.

Huge thanks to AustinJake for giving the suggestion/link!!!!!!!!!
Those guys are even more awesome than I thought, when does that ever happen?!?!? Great news!
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #55
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I know on most setups, the return fuel is directed to the fuel intake, supposed to swirl the fuel around to prevent something clogging the intake screen.
On the Toyota system (like a bike) the excess fuel from the fuel pressure regulator does that job.

So sometimes the connection between the brushes and the terminals fails?
That is usually some sort of woven very flexible wire.
Never seen that break on any motor.

If I had a pump failure, I would open it up and see what failed, then post pix!

There sure is a wide range for pump life.
The VW pump was 20,000 miles, the chevy pumps went right up to 136,000, and I have been told Toyota pumps never seem to fail!

On cars, fuel pressure regulator failure is quite rare.

As far as fuel pressure being low, in a car with wideband sensors, the ecu will just hold the injector open longer.
On narrow band and non oxy sensor bikes, I suppose it would make the bike run lean since its using pre set maps for injector on time.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
What is the pressure spec on this pump? The OEM spec is 3.3 - 3.7 BAR (48 - 54 PSI).
I believe the pressure needed by your particular system will be determined by the pressure regulator, not the pump. I quit looking for pressure stats and flow rates when I needed a new fuel pump. I found the Ducati replacement pump at CaCycleworks and I went with it. I believe my pressure regulator (green arrow below) is what is providing the correct pressure to my system. I've put 1200 miles on the oversized pump from 800 feet to 10000 feet elevation and no problems, bike runs like a jet.

Stock Husky fuel pump assembly


Stock 30mm fuel pump replaced with an oversized 38mm fuel pump, $30 a foot submersible fuel line used, $5 auto fuel filter used.


Side by side of a 38mm and 30mm fuel pump. The 38mm is rated for 750cc and above Ducatis

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Old 04-27-2011, 03:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I know on most setups, the return fuel is directed to the fuel intake, supposed to swirl the fuel around to prevent something clogging the intake screen.
On the Toyota system (like a bike) the excess fuel from the fuel pressure regulator does that job.

So sometimes the connection between the brushes and the terminals fails?
That is usually some sort of woven very flexible wire.
Never seen that break on any motor.

If I had a pump failure, I would open it up and see what failed, then post pix!

There sure is a wide range for pump life.
The VW pump was 20,000 miles, the chevy pumps went right up to 136,000, and I have been told Toyota pumps never seem to fail!

On cars, fuel pressure regulator failure is quite rare.

As far as fuel pressure being low, in a car with wideband sensors, the ecu will just hold the injector open longer.
On narrow band and non oxy sensor bikes, I suppose it would make the bike run lean since its using pre set maps for injector on time.
Never had an electric pump failure on a cage (just a mechanical one) but then I usually buy Jap and mostly Toyota. I have 3 buddies that have had pump failures on their cars/trucks and all 3 were domestic. But even your VW went further then any of the 690 pumps that have failed.

BTW, here's pics of my pump failure, a bud threw it on a lathe and cut it open :





As you can see, the wire obviously isn't flexible enough.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:47 PM   #58
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Message and Response from CA-Cycleworks Regarding Fuel Pressure Ratings

Between the experiences of the Husky crowd (Thanks again AustinJake!!!) and the response from Chris I am starting to feel rather comfortable putting this pump in my 690 with no ill consequences.

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Old 04-27-2011, 04:53 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by AustinJake View Post
Those guys are even more awesome than I thought, when does that ever happen?!?!? Great news!
That is exactly what I said last night to my G/F.....
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:04 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uller View Post
I am starting to feel rather comfortable putting this pump in my 690 with no ill consequences.
If the 30mm pump does not work for you, I will swap you my lighty used 38mm Ducati pump, which is rated for 750cc bikes at minimum.
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