ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > West California, the desert southwest and whatever is left
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-02-2010, 12:59 AM   #16
Kiethco
Adventurer
 
Kiethco's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Oddometer: 92
First of all, let me say I'm sorry to hear how your ride took a dump. I truly am. This ride is an epic, historic and shining gem of an event. It's an example of what can be achieved when you work woth the BLM, Forest service and private land owners. Anyone bashing the BLM is misguided and I'd venture to say has never got into the inner workings of one of the most overtaxed agencies in Government.

Now that being said, where are your rider instructions Rhino? Tell me, honestly, when exactly did you read them? Next, who were your riding buddies? Afte you're done kicking their asses, send em to me and I'll continue the beatings. Now if you tell me you were riding alone, then all of this is pointless and we should be kicking your ass. In your riding instructions you were told, if you do not have a riding buddy, we'll help find someone for you to ride with. We even had a sign and bull pen for single riders showing up and needing a riding buddy.

You were told in the rider instructions and over and over with the bullhorn rider meetings during sign ups: If you're hurt on the course call 911. 911!
Did you call 911 with your cell phone? I want the names of all parties involved. I will get to the bottom of this. If the ball was dropped on our end, I sincerely apologize. My Committee has a post event meeting with the BLM next Tuesday. Please forward all names of BLM and other law enforcement personnell you had contact with, as well as D-37 folks.

We put this ride on to benefit D-37 land use issues, Toys for Tots, Riders Helping Riders, CORVA, Stewards of the Sequoias and many more. It's supposed to be fun, we provide you with enough information to make it fun and safe for the riders.

I'll post the result of my findings here so as to present a balanced view of the events. In the heat of the moment and I'd venture to say Rhino was a bit shocky at best, things may have seemed to be one thing when they were actually another. It's a no win situation though due to the fact that Rhino had a bad experience, that's the last thing that's supposed to happen. We'll learn from this and move forward, hopefully nothing like this will happen in the future. It takes cooperation and responsibility on behalf of the riders as well as D-37 Dualsport.


Kieth Huff
AMA D-37 Dualsport President
LA-B-to-V event Coordinator
(562)244-0244
__________________
Kieth
President D-37 Dualsport
La-Barstow2Vegas Dualsport Ride Coordinater
www.LaBarstowVegas.com
Kiethco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 01:14 AM   #17
redredred
n00b Extraordinaire
 
redredred's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Motorcycle Heaven
Oddometer: 330
thank you for relaying your personal experience. i have been debating between getting a SPOT or getting the McMurdo FastFind. i am definitely getting the FastFind now. all SPOT does is call 911 on your behalf and while it is cheaper upfront, it has recurring fees. the FastFind has no recurring fees and is linked to the 406 MHz global emergency band along with a homing beacon and the GPS. what's the point of SPOT if when you actually need it, it doesn't work. it sure looks cute on its RAM mount on the handlebars, but when the shit goes down, i am going to want the device that really works.

and dude, don't listen to the bullshit in this thread: if you want to sue, go ahead and sue. litigation is the only language our society understands anymore. and if your lawsuit draws light to this EMS flaw and saves another rider's life, then it is worth it.
redredred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 03:54 AM   #18
Off Limits
Banned
 
Off Limits's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Camp Snoopy
Oddometer: 3,266
we riders know the risk, dont ruin a good ride by another petty lawsuit just to get some money. i know it sucks that you crashed and got hurt, but crashing comes along with riding. who are you going to sue next time you crash in the desert on one of your own rides?
Off Limits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 07:11 AM   #19
roundtripping
Adventourist
 
roundtripping's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 1,702
Petty lawsuit? How much closer to death without getting any help do you need to get in order for it not to be petty?
__________________
12 F658GS
13 Honda CRF250L


My SPOT Tracker
roundtripping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 07:39 AM   #20
emerson.biguns
All idiot, no savant
 
emerson.biguns's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: The Old Pueblo
Oddometer: 9,591
I'm not sure what the legislated requirements for the authorities to investigate each and every 911 call to resolution, but it appears on the surface it is pretty stringent. My understanding is, that even 911 hangups are investigated.

Pushing the 911 button on a SPoT is equivalent to any other 911 call. The GEOS dispatch center then makes the 911 call for you. A 911 call by proxy is no different than any other 911 call. If any official (race, LEO, rescue) interceded in the response based upon your SPoT activation without specific knowledge of your condition and location, they should be held accountable. However, I would temper that with the indication that you did not follow the rules set by the ride organizers.



.
emerson.biguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:06 AM   #21
traveltoad
Aaron S
 
traveltoad's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: San Fernando Valley
Oddometer: 6,565
Seems to me that the Spot crew made calls after the 911 button was pressed, which is what they are supposed to do. If they were waived off by someone in the field... it hardly seems to be a problem with Spot.

It also seems that there is a bit more story here...



On a different note... and having nothing to do with this case...

The 911 field in the Spot profile should have current (for each trip) information about you and your vehicle. It should also include current medical conditions and obvious, easily visible, identifiers to help searchers identify you/your vehicle. "KTM 525" maybe not mean anything to those looking for you... but "orange bike with white tank" is something anyone can figure out.
traveltoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:12 AM   #22
airborndad
Beastly Adventurer
 
airborndad's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Montclair Ca.
Oddometer: 2,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad View Post

On a different note... and having nothing to do with this case...

The 911 field in the Spot profile should have current (for each trip) information about you and your vehicle. It should also include current medical conditions and obvious, easily visible, identifiers to help searchers identify you/your vehicle. "KTM 525" maybe not mean anything to those looking for you... but "orange bike with white tank" is something anyone can figure out.
Thanks
thats some good advice
I need to do some modifying on my messages
airborndad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:19 AM   #23
SUMTROUBLE
Adventurer
 
SUMTROUBLE's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Hollywood CA.
Oddometer: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundtripping View Post
Petty lawsuit? How much closer to death without getting any help do you need to get in order for it not to be petty?

When do we become responsible for our own actions?


Not that I'm taking sides by any means.. But he did ride off alone.. A choice I would have prolly made also But i would have felt my decision to do so left me in the position I was..

Rhino seems like a great guy I've never meet him but reed his post it's sad what has happened here and He is one tuff as nails cat to get himself out of there..

But lawsuits just seem frivolous at this point, The one person I believe that should be held accountable would be the BLM ,though I understand where he is coming from sometimes the rule book has to be put aside to help and injured party
__________________
A ONE WAY OFFICER? I was only going one way
SUMTROUBLE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:26 AM   #24
SUMTROUBLE
Adventurer
 
SUMTROUBLE's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Hollywood CA.
Oddometer: 86
Oh and Rhino I like the others am right here in your area.. you need ANYTHING just call brother I have drivers running all over this city all day long..
Seriously if you need it we can get it..
__________________
A ONE WAY OFFICER? I was only going one way
SUMTROUBLE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:33 AM   #25
Lost4Now
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Lost4Now's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: NoHo, Ca.
Oddometer: 114
Its unfortunate for your crash.

The crash was not caused by SPOT or BLM or any other personnel.

If you DID NOT have a SPOT, what then? Your wife would not have been there. 911 would have never been dialed.

I have heard a several bad stories about SPOT. Enough so, that to me, it doesn't justify the cost. Your story actually justifies the cost a little more. SPOT worked, and did as advertised. I still won't carry one.

As an EMT, and being involved with Search And Rescue, your position is common. I have work many off-road (4X4), mountain bike, adventure races, etc. The event coordinator has A LOT on their hands, and in most cases, we swept the courses. It would be VERY difficult to sweep a course like this, because you can be 5 feet off a trail, and still be missed. The sweep has 360 degrees to search, and can easily miss someone that is not on the designated path. I'm sure the sweep is looking for disabled bikes, etc. Not looking for a bike and guy laying off the trail.

I hope for your speedy recovery. FWIW, an emergency blanket, Powerbar, hand-warmer, and fire-starter takes up very little space.
__________________
2000 DR650
Lost4Now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:37 AM   #26
nevermind
Swamp Thing
 
nevermind's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Lost then Found
Oddometer: 2,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost4Now View Post
SPOT worked, and did as advertised. I still won't carry one.

As an EMT, and being involved with Search And Rescue, your position is common. I have work many off-road (4X4), mountain bike, adventure races, etc.
What would you carry?
nevermind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:37 AM   #27
ian408
Oh?
 
ian408's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Oddometer: 13,749
Sounds to me like SPOT did what they said they'd do in a timely manner. Not sure why you're blaming SPOT.
ian408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 08:43 AM   #28
Black Mesa Offroad
BRP Pilot
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Along the Western OK TAT
Oddometer: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson.biguns View Post
I'm not sure what the legislated requirements for the authorities to investigate each and every 911 call to resolution, but it appears on the surface it is pretty stringent. My understanding is, that even 911 hangups are investigated.
Yeah, a lot of us are pretty anal about 911 calls. We even roll on those that we're pretty sure is a line malfunction.

With that being said, I don't know the inner workings of the companies like SPOT and OnStar. Just a couple of weeks ago, we got dispatched to an OnStar activation out in the middle of BFE. We went right where we were supposed to go. Several of us run GPS in our units. I run a Garmin 60 CSX while the others run Nuvis. Never found the vehicle. Still to this day we don't know the backstory.
__________________
Oklahoma Photo Tag
Black Mesa Offroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 09:08 AM   #29
roundtripping
Adventourist
 
roundtripping's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 1,702
I don't think rhino said anything about the accident as such, he wasn't trying to blame the actual crash on anyone. Obviously he voluntarily rode his motorcycle and crashed, I'd think that goes without saying. What he's talking about is what happened after the accident. Systems he and others pay money for, and to subscribe to, obviously didn't work. Not saying SPOT didn't fulfill their obligations, maybe they did. But clearly the systems in place didn't function in a real world experience, whether that means someone or something is at fault or it's just a demonstration that you should save your money or invest in other, different systems, I don't know.

Also, I wasn't advocating suing. I was just trying to point out that any incident involving near-death experiences are far from petty to me.
__________________
12 F658GS
13 Honda CRF250L


My SPOT Tracker
roundtripping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 09:12 AM   #30
redredred
n00b Extraordinaire
 
redredred's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Motorcycle Heaven
Oddometer: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rider View Post
who are you going to sue next time you crash in the desert on one of your own rides?
this is bullshit and you know it. he may be pissed at himself for wrecking, but not anyone else for that. he's pissed that a device he bought and paid annual fees on didn't provide him with timely medical care. yes, he thought because he had it he was superman and didn't need basic offroad smarts, like having a riding buddy. that was stupid and he knows it, and is a good lesson for all. but SPOT combined with EMS should have been able to find this guy in less than one day. like i said before, i am not impressed with SPOT and will be getting a FastFind with no annual fees and a homing beacon.
redredred is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014