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Old 12-02-2010, 10:16 AM   #31
SUMTROUBLE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundtripping View Post
I don't think rhino said anything about the accident as such, he wasn't trying to blame the actual crash on anyone. Obviously he voluntarily rode his motorcycle and crashed, I'd think that goes without saying. What he's talking about is what happened after the accident. Systems he and others pay money for, and to subscribe to, obviously didn't work. Not saying SPOT didn't fulfill their obligations, maybe they did. But clearly the systems in place didn't function in a real world experience, whether that means someone or something is at fault or it's just a demonstration that you should save your money or invest in other, different systems, I don't know.

Also, I wasn't advocating suing. I was just trying to point out that any incident involving near-death experiences are far from petty to me.
On that I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:21 AM   #32
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i have a question for the OP...

when the BLM dude showed up, did you ask him to get you medivac'd?

from your post it sounds like you tried to just get him to give you a ride. thats not something a law enforcement officer should make an exception to lightly... if you take a turn for the worse on the ride, and die, he isnt covered for trying to be EMS.

Im just not sure why he didnt call for an an ambulance, air or ground... in my experience(12 years as a patrol officer), the only reason a LEO doesnt call for EMS is when the hurt dude refuses it. Im not trying to bash you, cuz obviously i dont know that you did refuse... but if you did, or you were ambiguos and the guy thought you just wanted a ride, there is a lesson there for all riders.

All 911 calls should be checked out. but people call 911 to ask what time it is. others call 911 then decide they dont want to pay for an ambulance ride.

I, in july, like a dumbass, rode 800 miles home with 3 broken ribs cuz "thats what I do". it turned out ok, but it wasnt wise.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:22 AM   #33
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Put yourself in a dangerous situation and things got dangerous. Not sure of the whole story, and your description was a bit difficult to decipher, but it sounds as if the ball was fumbled more than once. Not Spots fault though. Please don't be a sue-happy American.

On the topic of Spots abilities- I remember reading somewhere about the Spots GPS coordinates format being a possible issue. I believe there are decimal degrees or there are degrees, minutes and seconds. If your rescuers are using a different format, they can't find you. From what I read, the Spot dispatchers give the coordinates in degrees. I am not sure if they specify this clearly or indicate to the authorities how important this is. If the sheriff (or whoever) isn't familiar with GPS they may not catch it. Everyone who uses spot may want to look into it.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:41 AM   #34
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Pissed Before U bash an injured inmate get the facts!

Get well soon !
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinoeater View Post
Rhinoeater here,

Ride Barstow 2 Vegas Nov. 25 2010
Rhinoeater is a good friend of mine and I have more of the story than what is here.
1. His bike quite running before this incident and he made trailside repairs. His mistake he sent his partner on to Baker. His pucked up partner left him! Sweep came upon him and waited for him to get his bike running, then sent him on saying they'll be right behind him. When sweep made it to Baker check point and Rhinoeater had not been checked through they should have known they passed him somewhere! And what about his pucked up partner who was suppose to be waiting for him at check point Baker?
To all you spot owners out there I was injureded on Saturday in the 1st hard section, went over the bars and just layed there, comptiplating if I should hit the 911 or not, I didnt and after sweep had passed me and i had layed there for 1/2 an hour, I mustered all the energy I had and Desided to go the direction I thought was The staightest way to hyway 15, considering my GPS granaded, along with my e-start and my odometer........ I shortly collapsed and decided to hit 911 and lost conciness
2. Rhinoeater has no GPS or odometer now and sweep has passed him. Any of you armchair experts want to navigate a desert course with a rollchart now. He made a decision to head to the highway to survive! When he could no longer ride he push the 911 panick button and stayed put.
Know, not knowing my injurys at the time: They were a class 3 Bleeding from my spline, Class 3 rupture to the liver, and 2 broken ribs.

After 911 was pressed my wife was called by the barstow sheriiff and gives him the info that she knows. (hes in a ride from barstow 2 Vegas) And they tell her we no his cordinates, and are dispatching a helicopter from San Bernardino but no helicopter sent. Or was ever seen!!! OK!!! I get a call from barstow sheriff on my cell phone that gets no reception 50 miles from the closest town, so that was useless 2nd call to me cell phone 4 huors later from Baker Sheriffs dept they also had my exact position and from what I found out later have a helicopter right in Purumph, ready for these situations...I have theses officers names and pnohe#s if you PM me I will be more than willing tyo give you this info!!!

My my real complaint comes in with District 37 telling the Sherriffs we have this under control???? or with the ride promoters willing to tell the sheriffs anything they want to here, well get him and take care of it just for the sake of there land permits???

I will find out and get to the bottom of this!!!

After lying out there for 3 hours a BLM Officer comes up and does not know anything about my 911 call (Now remember my injurys) and he cant transport me WTF!!!!This is 3 hours since sweep has passed him and made it to Baker check point and help should be sweeping back from Baker.

So he leaves and says hes going to get a hold of the event orginizares with get this (no not his 2 way radio, but his cell phone and he has no GPS) Comes back and says he could not get a hold of anyone on the paperwork he had!!! Shouldn't the blm have call 911 and stayed with the guy until help arrived! I Pleaded so hard, to know avail for just a ride but he said he Couln't.. Have his Name and info if needed Just PM me.

But I can lead you to the I15 So there we go zig zaging becouse he has no GPS and does not know were to cross the tracks 20miles later im at I15 somewhere about 5 miles s. of Razer and again pleaded for A ride to no avail..Are you kidding me, lead an injured rider out to the highway with unknown injuies??? Get him off BLM land before he DIES !

So I rode 21 miles down the interstate to baker check point to, lets guess a waiting ambulance NNNOOO!!! , helicopter NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! M wife with my truckwilling to drive my lump of S..H al the way to the hospital in Las Vegas in the front seat of course!!!

I do appreciate the all support from Dan the computor guy and the support from Wanda allthought I dont know what roll she played!!!

One remark I deffenitly didn't appreciate was the one from MARC (He infasized with a C) Is that spot is getting alot of hits on this Holiday...
To that I say BULLSHIT !!!!!! We pay any where from $100 to $150 for a device and then any where from $99 -$212.95 and thats extra to pay for my heliride not so you guys can take care of it and make sure you secure your permits for this!!!!!

You have not heard the end of this, and may lead to many partys getting involved is this where you FF's read in that Rhinoeater is sueing because I have yet to hear those words come out of his mouth, But I tell you one thing wheather I ever ride a dist 37 event again......You will have to answer to more than the local sheriffs telling them you got it all under control, becouse you shur as hell don't

By the way never ever heard from, or a call to see how I was doing

RIDERS BEWARE!!!!

Rhinoeater
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:45 AM   #35
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SPOT uses decimals.
example
Lat. 34.20399
Long. -118.54799
I have worked as a first responder and had issues when calling in a format that the hired help doesn't recognize. It is easy to change the settings on most GPS units to relay your coordinates in the desired format.

johngil screwed with this post 12-02-2010 at 10:51 AM
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:51 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klammer
1. His bike quite running before this incident and he made trailside repairs. His mistake he sent his partner on to Baker. His pucked up partner left him! Sweep came upon him and waited for him to get his bike running, then sent him on saying they'll be right behind him. When sweep made it to Baker check point and Rhinoeater had not been checked through they should have known they passed him somewhere! And what about his pucked up partner who was suppose to be waiting for him at check point Baker?
To me these are the main problems.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:16 AM   #37
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Just a blanket warning, these threads can get ugly quick, lets not let that happen here.

Thanks!
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klammer View Post
After lying out there for 3 hours a BLM Officer comes up and does not know anything about my 911 call (Now remember my injurys) and he cant transport me WTF!!!!This is 3 hours since sweep has passed him and made it to Baker check point and help should be sweeping back from Baker.

So he leaves and says hes going to get a hold of the event orginizares with get this (no not his 2 way radio, but his cell phone and he has no GPS) Comes back and says he could not get a hold of anyone on the paperwork he had!!! Shouldn't the blm have call 911 and stayed with the guy until help arrived! I Pleaded so hard, to know avail for just a ride but he said he Couln't.. Have his Name and info if needed Just PM me.

But I can lead you to the I15 So there we go zig zaging becouse he has no GPS and does not know were to cross the tracks 20miles later im at I15 somewhere about 5 miles s. of Razer and again pleaded for A ride to no avail..Are you kidding me, lead an injured rider out to the highway with unknown injuies??? Get him off BLM land before he DIES !
This, to me, defines the only negligence I see in all of this. A human, in a position of authority, decided to do nothing. I don't care if Rhinoeater did't "cry out" for help or a medevac--anyone with a modicum of training or even sense should have seen the guy was hurt.

There are always "rules," and "outs" for exigent circumstances. I don't buy that the BLM guy was "following the rules." I'm not condeming the BLM, or any agency--the other agencies had "theoreticals" to work with (arguably). But this guy was watching Rhinoeater hurting en-vivo.

It appears that Spot did its thing, the even organizers did theirs, and there was just, as someone else said, "A perfect storm" of cluster-f*cks.

Rhinoeater, get well soon.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:00 PM   #39
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If the sweep arrived at Baker with Rhino not checked in through there and no one went back to look for him, I don't see how everyone but the BLM dude did their job. Isn't it pretty standard procedure if a guy is missing to go back and look for him?
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:32 PM   #40
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Glad to hear you made it out alive . . . sounds like with your injuries, the outcome could have been much much worse. Heal up quick and get back out there. Count your blessings bro . . . you're alive and once you have healed up and the anger has subsided you'll have one kickass story to tell. Maybe your story will end up on that show "I Shouldn't Be Alive"!


Good luck with a speedy recovery.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:37 PM   #41
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What happened to wait till all the facts are in? Thanks for your input on trying to sue RedRed. I mean why not, someone needs to teach "them" a lesson!

All the ranting and finger pointing so far has been board clatter and supposition. I, we, will get to the bottom of this. I don't want to blame anyone. Like most incidents there are many factors, not just one, that lead up to it.

Some of the questions I have, and this is before I talk to Rhino. Was he doing the speed limit when he crashed, it was 30 in that area. Was he riding alone, what good is a spot locater if you crash alone and are unconscious? Many people have died when all they needed was a head repositioning to open an airway. Did he call 911 as soon as he had cell service, did he have cell service? He was instructed to call 911 in an emergency.

Recently I see these commercials for Jeeps, Nike-just do it! VIagra- your'e old enough to know how to take care of things! All these commercials are touting how you need to rough it, get out there, take charge, be your own man and on and on. The event Rhino rode is one of the last bastions in our country where you can do just that. With that opportunity comes responsibility. But like redred said, there's always someone with the attitude that the 1.2 million is just waiting for Larry H Parker or some other lawyer to call and claim. In that case we can all just stay home and watch Ewan do the Long Way Round and only wonder "what if".
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:41 PM   #42
eatpasta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiethco View Post
First of all, let me say I'm sorry to hear how your ride took a dump. I truly am. This ride is an epic, historic and shining gem of an event. It's an example of what can be achieved when you work woth the BLM, Forest service and private land owners. Anyone bashing the BLM is misguided and I'd venture to say has never got into the inner workings of one of the most overtaxed agencies in Government.

Now that being said, where are your rider instructions Rhino? Tell me, honestly, when exactly did you read them? Next, who were your riding buddies? Afte you're done kicking their asses, send em to me and I'll continue the beatings. Now if you tell me you were riding alone, then all of this is pointless and we should be kicking your ass. In your riding instructions you were told, if you do not have a riding buddy, we'll help find someone for you to ride with. We even had a sign and bull pen for single riders showing up and needing a riding buddy.

You were told in the rider instructions and over and over with the bullhorn rider meetings during sign ups: If you're hurt on the course call 911. 911!
Did you call 911 with your cell phone? I want the names of all parties involved. I will get to the bottom of this. If the ball was dropped on our end, I sincerely apologize. My Committee has a post event meeting with the BLM next Tuesday. Please forward all names of BLM and other law enforcement personnell you had contact with, as well as D-37 folks.

We put this ride on to benefit D-37 land use issues, Toys for Tots, Riders Helping Riders, CORVA, Stewards of the Sequoias and many more. It's supposed to be fun, we provide you with enough information to make it fun and safe for the riders.

I'll post the result of my findings here so as to present a balanced view of the events. In the heat of the moment and I'd venture to say Rhino was a bit shocky at best, things may have seemed to be one thing when they were actually another. It's a no win situation though due to the fact that Rhino had a bad experience, that's the last thing that's supposed to happen. We'll learn from this and move forward, hopefully nothing like this will happen in the future. It takes cooperation and responsibility on behalf of the riders as well as D-37 Dualsport.


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I like you! When I started racing D.37 last year, I quickly learned that the racers out there were a very different kind of person. Just imagine if more politicians spoke like this! Things might actually get done!!

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Old 12-02-2010, 01:15 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by redredred View Post
and dude, don't listen to the bullshit in this thread: if you want to sue, go ahead and sue. litigation is the only language our society understands anymore.

yes, let's exacerbate this problem, shall we? Heaven forbid we attempt to educate ourselves about anything - lets just sue the pants off of anyone we want!
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Quote:
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MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinoeater View Post
Rhinoeater here,

Ride Barstow 2 Vegas Nov. 25 2010

To all you spot owners out there I was injureded on Saturday in the 1st hard section, went over the bars and just layed there, comptiplating if I should hit the 911 or not, I didnt and after sweep had passed me and i had layed there for 1/2 an hour, I mustered all the energy I had and Desided to go the direction I thought was The staightest way to hyway 15, considering my GPS granaded, along with my e-start and my odometer........ I shortly collapsed and decided to hit 911 and lost conciness
I have a SPOT as well..... and I was also very curious to hear what happens when you hit the button. I was under the impress because the device has medivac insurance, that it just sends a chopper.... guess not.

heal fast!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngil View Post
SPOT uses decimals.
example
Lat. 34.20399
Long. -118.54799
I have worked as a first responder and had issues when calling in a format that the hired help doesn't recognize. It is easy to change the settings on most GPS units to relay your coordinates in the desired format.
clueless and curious
how would those same coordinant's look in the degrees minutes seconds format
would they be totally different #'s or the same #'s with more decimals or dashes
something easily converted or not
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