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Old 12-02-2010, 04:27 PM   #61
emerson.biguns
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Originally Posted by 1224R View Post
Sounds like rider buddy fail. Plain and simple...
It's not that simple and that's really not the answer in this case. The question is, how did the EMS/SAR response, initiated by GEOS after pushing the 911 button on the SPoT, get turned off without an accurate verification of the reason for the request?

We all make mistakes. Most of the time when someone dials 911 it's because someone has made a pretty big one. I'd be willing to bet most of the folks in this thread would be pretty upset if they sat in a ditch overnight after calling 911 on their cell phone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
If everyone sues SPOT or a similar company EVERT time they have a problem, that service will cease to exist.
It sounds like they did their job, they activated SAR/EMS.




Sounds like someone ought to request the radio/dispatch logs from the involved agencies.




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Old 12-02-2010, 04:30 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by airborndad View Post
Thanks Jo
I can see where a lot of confusion can be developed here
Just wondering outloud (Sort of)
Do all LEO's, BLM, USFS, MEDEVAC, use the same format and SPOT uses a different format ????
There's not a whole lot of training going on in this area for law enforcement.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:31 PM   #63
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Rhinoeater,
Iím glad youíre ok and Iím sorry to hear about your experience. Sounds to me like you are one luck dude!
My feeling is that the BLM dude is the only one at fault here; He should have never left you and should have made sure you got the medical help you needed.
I donít feel D-37 did anything wrong and would have done everything in their power to make sure you got the help you needed. They are a top notch group of people and take pride in organizing safe and fun events.

Now regarding Spot, this is a tool and only a tool. How you use that tool is also a big factor as to how well it works for you. It helps if understand how the tool works to, whenever I go on a long trip
Or out to a remote place I update my 911 response message. Example:Ē on 11/26 to 11/28 I will participating in the Barstow to Vegas D37 race. If you receive a 911 call it means me
Or one of my riding buddies is in need of emergency help please respondĒ

This helps the dispatcher verify that this is the location they should be looking at and that you are indeed in need. It also helps to keep hitting the 911 button to help pin point you and verify that you still need help.
I donít know all the facts in your case and I donít know if you kept pushing the button when you were moving? I can only go by my experiences with Spot. I have had to use it twice both with very positive results!

A few months back a group of us when for a ride up near Bishop, one of our buddyís went down hard and appeared to be hurt bad. 2 of us were carrying Spots and we both hit the 911 buttons. Within minutes my wife gets a call from Spot informing her that they received a 911 call from my spot(scared the shit out of her!) my wife longed on to my Spot page and see could see the 911 location.

Now back to the the scene of the accident; it had been about 30mins after the crash and the down rider is now up on his feet and thinking he is hurt but wants to ride and get closer to the HWY, itís getting late and looks to be getting cold soon. (this was a very bad idea, the dude had a broken neck and we should have never moved from the spot he went down, thatís another story).

So now I donít know what to do since I pushed the 911 button? We both decided to cancel the 911 and we pushed the ok button in hopes our wives and spot would know we were OK and on the move. It worked, My wife got a call from Spot saying they are getting my OK signal and that my Spot was on the move moving towards the HWY.


I will never ride without a Spot, If the 2 of us riders did not have a Spot and the down rider could not have moved it would have taken hours to ride to a place with cell service and get the help back to where it was needed. We were way up in the mountains and only goats and crazies like us venture up there. I will also not ride in remote areas like that without a ridding buddy; Barstow to Vegas has a lot of open desert you could wonder out there for days lost, you ridding partners should have never left you!

If your mad be mad at the one person who could and should have help you the BLM Dude. If it was me I would contact him and his superiors and let them know that his failure to act could have cost someone their LIFE! Hopefully in the future they wonít make the same mistake again.

Life is too short to be angry at the world.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:32 PM   #64
itsatdm
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That is true. But I am amazed that the a BLM employ did not ask for medical assistance once he got to the highway.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:51 PM   #65
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im just saying dont ruin d37 and this ride. blm, nuff said.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:10 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ian408 View Post
Sounds to me like SPOT did what they said they'd do in a timely manner. Not sure why you're blaming SPOT.
^^^^^This.


Quote:
Furthermore, Rhino paid for a service which SPOT failed to provide. Forget about the money, I've seen people die with lesser injuries, and in less time that it took for Rhino to get to Vegas.
Please spell out for me exactly what was paid for that was not delivered. As far as I can tell from the story and from what I pay for with my SPOT device, everything they offer was delivered.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:14 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
If everyone sues SPOT or a similar company EVERY time they have a problem, that service will cease to exist.

Suing is not the answer here
if you can't get medical attention after a full day after buying the SPOT, paying for the annual fee, eating shit on a trail and hitting 911, then that service SHOULD cease to exist. it is at least product misrepresentation and at most fraud to call it "911" if it can't get you EMS on a trail in less than a day.

SPOT is satellite SMS service with GPS tracking of waypoints. it is NOT a PLB or EPIRB. watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjrC-9Kv2Gc. $229 at west marine, 5 year standby life on battery and 24 hour life when activated. if you actually want to be found when you eat shit, get this.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by redredred View Post
if you can't get medical attention after a full day after buying the SPOT, paying for the annual fee, eating shit on a trail and hitting 911, then that service SHOULD cease to exist. it is at least product misrepresentation and at most fraud to call it "911" if it can't get you EMS on a trail in less than a day.
This is what SPOT offers (from their web site);

Quote:
The IERCC is manned 24/7 with dedicated and highly trained operatives who have access to emergency responders worldwide to ensure that in an emergency your situation will be dealt with efficiently and you will receive the resources you need. In fact, the average response time from the receipt of your 911/SOS message until referring an emergency responder is only 11 minutes, wherever you are in the world.

Once a SOS/911 message has been received, the IERCC calls your emergency contact(s) to make sure that it wasnít a false alarm. They locate and notify an emergency responder, and then maintain an open line of communication, including providing updates of your location if needed. The IERCC will also keep your emergency contact(s) informed.
It sounds to me like they fulfilled their obligations relatively quickly and that the ball was dropped by those "on the ground." SPOT does not promise to provide anyone to you in any amount of time. They offer a service to notify the local authorities of your signal and location. Which, as far as I can tell, they did.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:34 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
SPOT does not promise to provide anyone to you in any amount of time. They offer a service to notify the local authorities of your signal and location. Which, as far as I can tell, they did.

I agree. I do think that a PLB would probably receive a more 'serious' response from Locals, since the call they get is from a federal government agency, and the things are less common etc.

But afaict from the OP the dang spot worked, Spot doesn't have a global fleet of choppers, they call in people who do. In this case it just seems like those people chose not to act as fast as one would have hoped... but like I said before, I've know people who waited 5+ hours for an ambulance on frikken I-5.

When I bit it in Baja, I just accepted as a fact of life that if I had Medevac scrambled RIGHT NOW it would be 10+ hours before I got to a doc.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:39 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by boney View Post
It sounds to me like they fulfilled their obligations relatively quickly and that the ball was dropped by those "on the ground." SPOT does not promise to provide anyone to you in any amount of time. They offer a service to notify the local authorities of your signal and location. Which, as far as I can tell, they did.
Exactly. What they offer is NOT what i could call a 911/SOS/mayday response. Don't get me wrong, it is better than nothing. But what they do is call your contact, then call 911 on their behalf, handing over last known GPS coordinates in a format that EMS cannot understand and then sign off. Brilliant.

SPOT does not use the COSPAS-SARSAT search and rescue system. it does not have a homing beacon. again: if you actually want to have your ass found, don't rely on a SPOT. use it for its other functions, not for its psuedo-911.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:52 PM   #71
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After spending some time in Vietnam I have always wondered how the SPOT would work in that part of the world.

Im sure if you hit the 911 button there, some random guy would prolly turn up on a scooter with chickens on it.....
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:20 PM   #72
emerson.biguns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redredred View Post
SPOT does not use the COSPAS-SARSAT search and rescue system. it does not have a homing beacon. again: if you actually want to have your ass found, don't rely on a SPOT. use it for its other functions, not for its psuedo-911.

If your SPoT 911 message makes it through, then an accurate position is sent (usually +/- 30m at the most).

Locating the request was not an issue in this case.


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Old 12-02-2010, 08:29 PM   #73
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I have a SPOT. It's a peace of crap. It looses signal if a sparrow flies by. I paied extra for the real time tracking. Sometimes there are two or three hour gaps when I'm on a ride. My wife stopped monitoring my rides because she starts freaking out when it stops updating. I still ride with it. It's better than nothing. I figure it will at least let rescuers know which direction I was headed if I never com home...

If you REALLY want to get a message out, and have some serious rescuers listening, you need a 2 meter radio. Those who know anything about the Amateur Radio crowd knows that they will drop everything, call anyone, and go anywhere to help someone calling may-day. Granted, there aren't repeaters everywhere, but I feel better about my 2-meter than I do about my Spot.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:33 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by redredred View Post
Exactly. What they offer is NOT what i could call a 911/SOS/mayday response. Don't get me wrong, it is better than nothing. But what they do is call your contact, then call 911 on their behalf, handing over last known GPS coordinates in a format that EMS cannot understand and then sign off. Brilliant.

SPOT does not use the COSPAS-SARSAT search and rescue system. it does not have a homing beacon. again: if you actually want to have your ass found, don't rely on a SPOT. use it for its other functions, not for its psuedo-911.
Spot has worked flawlessly for the multiple riders that I personally have known to use it....flaw-less-ly...

Don't know what you are selling....don't care....but you are beginning to embarrass yourself....
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:56 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Memnok View Post
I have a SPOT. It's a peace of crap. It looses signal if a sparrow flies by. I paied extra for the real time tracking. Sometimes there are two or three hour gaps when I'm on a ride. My wife stopped monitoring my rides because she starts freaking out when it stops updating. I still ride with it. It's better than nothing. I figure it will at least let rescuers know which direction I was headed if I never com home...

If you REALLY want to get a message out, and have some serious rescuers listening, you need a 2 meter radio. Those who know anything about the Amateur Radio crowd knows that they will drop everything, call anyone, and go anywhere to help someone calling may-day. Granted, there aren't repeaters everywhere, but I feel better about my 2-meter than I do about my Spot.
SPOT 2 works worlds better than the original. Worth the cost to upgrade in my opinion.
I have not had the luxury of using the 911 function, but my tracking seems to hit almost every ten minutes as advertised.
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