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Old 12-03-2010, 09:19 AM   #91
RAZR
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Marc with a "C", thank you for your indepth response.

i brought the attention on the D37 board in hopes to have a response like yours.

i am grateful that you guys are out there and think you are doing all of us riders an amazing service!

now that the facts are out, we can now take a deep breath and learn from this.

rhinoeater, heal quick and get back out on two wheels.

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Old 12-03-2010, 09:53 AM   #92
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Heya Marc "C" - well stated.

I hung with you guys last year and got to see how professional and thorough you were first hand. I am good friends with John B., and I know how much time, money, and effort he applies to Rescue 3. I think the foks out there in Barstow are very lucky to have you guys out there looking out for them.

The very fact that you have the times and situation documented tells me that you did pay attention, and did what you could given the info you had. I am still thinking SPOT is the biggest culprit here.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:05 AM   #93
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Sounds like a breakdown some where between the S/O and Distict 37. But it raises an interesting question.

Just what would be the response from an agencey if they received a call from a 3rd party who reports they received a 911 call and the only info they could supply is some GPS coordinates?

There are over 3,000 S/O's alone in the US. Add all State and Feds agencies providing LE/EMS services and the number of employees is staggering. My guess is next to none have any idea of what SPOT is, and they certainly have no idea in what situation a user would activate one. So how much effort are they going to put into locating the source?

Contrary to popular thought, 911 is used way to freely, "Do you have the correct time" is a real 911 call. I doubt any agency is going to send up a helicopter without at least verifying some info on the ground.

In this case it sounds like the Sheriff had more info and should have concluded that this might be a real emergency. But this is BLM land correct, and we know they had at least 1 ranger. Dist. 37 had a permit from BLM, so knew of the event.

I suspect that the breakdown in response, is a breakdown in communications between one of those 3.

An aside, who pays for recues?. Because so many occur in sparsley populated areas where there are limited LE and budgets. The county where the rescued party resides, foots the bill. It used to be the county ate it, but with todays tight budgets it may be the rescued party.

itsatdm screwed with this post 12-03-2010 at 12:55 PM
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:18 AM   #94
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I'll admit that I have a SPOT. I have never fully trusted it, and after reading this thread, I surely won't trust it any MORE than I do.

What bothers me is how long it takes this thing to send messages. Like, if I hit OK, it can take up to 15-20 min to even transmit the thing. I wonder if it responds as slowly with 911.

Since Globalstar is the company behind SPOT, I was already suspicious when I bought my SPOT. I had one of their satellite phones. I ended up canceling the service back in 2007 because the thing wouldn't find satellites reliably or make calls anymore. I found out online that they were having problems with their satellites. So I decided that their phone was unreliable as an emergency device. When they launched the SPOT service, I decided to give them another try.

Now after reading this thread and seeing both sides, I can see that SPOT appeared to work fairly well, but I still wouldn't want to bet my life on it. I think my long-term goal will be to get one of those Iridium satellite phones. It's too bad they're so expensive, but heck, they do work.

Rob
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:50 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc with a C View Post
First I hear anything bad is on this board So to find out what might of happened I looked for his FINDMESPOT remember untill now I thought he might of been out there close to 4 hours.
After looking at his spot track log
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/f...pyk7OSDVHpqycX
This is what i found out....
his first 911 was sent at 1155 then 5 more times till 1225 from the same location 1 more from 2.1 miles away at 1249 and his final 911 call 2.2 miles from there at 1256 less than an Hour total from first to last mark which is where he met up with the BLM is my guess.

We D37 sweep were not even notified until 1303, scrambled the search team in less than 10 minutes and was en route to his last know mark and called off by his wife when he arrived in baker at 1330. Unless my math is as messed up as my desire to help others? that is less than 28 minutes.

On a side note...
At no time did any D37 person contact the SO and tell them to stand down or cancel the Helicopter. Why would we take the most useful asset out of the loop?. It makes no sense. Nor does the call of EMS effect our permit.
Oh ya Post Concussive.


Marc with a "C"
Marc, Thanks so much for posting this. The facts speak for themselves. the spot tracker link speaks for itself.. he was on the move after 30 minutes.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:01 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airborndad View Post
Rescue 3
+1
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:02 PM   #97
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I have a SPOT and so was very interested in the post. I read the whole thing all the way through and not until Marc with a C posted were my suspicions confirmed. SPOT done its job, those notified (by SPOT) didn't do quite so good. Seems like a lack of Communications AND/OR FOLLOW-UP.

The person who gave me my SPOT would have been all over all of them until she was satisfied that I was ok.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:17 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
What bothers me is how long it takes this thing to send messages. Like, if I hit OK, it can take up to 15-20 min to even transmit the thing. I wonder if it responds as slowly with 911.

Rob
I guess the way I look at it is that "slowly" is relative. If I am in a remote area without cell service (which happens pretty often) and I am injured to the point where I cannot move from that location... 20 min to get the rescue started (define "rescue" as you will) is much better than the 2-ish days until my next scheduled check-in with Mrs. Toad.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:28 PM   #99
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What would you carry?

ALl the above listed stuff and a referee's whistle.
I keep one in my tankbag, just in case.

I will say, "there but for the grace of God, go I".

I have a SPOT tracker and the insurance, too. I hope it works, but if not I'm damn sure going to have Plan B.

At the end of the day, I am glad you made it out alive and are here to tell the tale.

Thanks
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:37 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Marc with a C View Post
Facts are Facts there they are.
We as Mc Sweep give a great service to the riders and their families
Thanks for your volunteering, man.

Thanks
CA Stu

PS I've done this ride 12 years in a row now, plan to keep the streak alive.

PPS Not that anyone cares, but I reckon if you get left by your riding partners before you are 100% safe, you need to find some new riding partners.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:41 PM   #101
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The LA-Barstow-to-Vegas ride has become a world class event. We do indeed have many international riders.

Our sweep crews are part of the reason we've been able to bring this event forward. Myself and the rest of the Committee hold them in high esteem. I'm glad Marc was able to provide details of the incident being discussed here.

This event is planned more than a year in advance. Riders need to plan for the unexpected turns in the days events. Riders do need to take responsibility for their own welfare at all times.

I've said it before, this ride isn't a casual walk in the park. You get the best of the West on this 2 day tour, it takes a tremendous committment to complete the hard way routes. Do it once, it'll change your life. 356 days till we do it all over again, only different!
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Kiethco View Post

I've said it before, this ride isn't a casual walk in the park. You get the best of the West on this 2 day tour, it takes a tremendous committment to complete the hard way routes. Do it once, it'll change your life. 356 days till we do it all over again, only different!
Where do I mail the check?

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Old 12-03-2010, 01:39 PM   #103
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From experience I can say the BLM is a worthless as tits on a boar. Do not count on them under any circumstance. They have left my brother stranded in the middle of nowhere and made no attempt to call anyone for help. No food No water, nothing for 24 hours. Bastards they are.

Make sure the folks on your spot list follow up on all Help and 911 messages, or the ball may very well be dropped.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:43 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Stu View Post
ALl the above listed stuff and a referee's whistle.
I keep one in my tankbag, just in case.

I will say, "there but for the grace of God, go I".

I have a SPOT tracker and the insurance, too. I hope it works, but if not I'm damn sure going to have Plan B.

At the end of the day, I am glad you made it out alive and are here to tell the tale.

Thanks
CA Stu
When you think about it, how smart is carrying the SPOT in a tank bag. I too carry it in the tank bag. But, over the bars and 7 feet away from that tank bag with a broken hip or worse may be your demise.

I believe I will carry it in my riding jackets pocket from now on.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:51 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Moraflex View Post
When you think about it, how smart is carrying the SPOT in a tank bag. I too carry it in the tank bag. But, over the bars and 7 feet away from that tank bag with a broken hip or worse may be your demise.

I believe I will carry it in my riding jackets pocket from now on.
I keep thinking I should do that myself, I carry the SPOT in a ram mount on the strom & in a tank bag on the smaller bikes

I need to figure out a way to carry it in mt jacket or something
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