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Old 03-22-2012, 05:00 AM   #1351
jdrocks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm204 View Post
I swapped forks, wheels, suspension on my Ninja 650r with no welding other than making the kickstand longer.
but you have a welder and can use it, right?


i don't know why so many people are wary of the need for welding on these projects, it's not the space station components being fabricated.

forget the welding, that's easy, even for a beginner. designing and fabricating the parts you want to weld, then dealing with fitment, that's more difficult by far.

for any rider thinking about a rat build, but with no welding experience, find a buddy with a modern wire welder and bum a demo. you'll be producing very acceptable welds in a short period of time.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:16 AM   #1352
pjm204
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
but you have a welder and can use it, right?


i don't know why so many people are wary of the need for welding on these projects, it's not the space station components being fabricated.

forget the welding, that's easy, even for a beginner. designing and fabricating the parts you want to weld, then dealing with fitment, that's more difficult by far.

for any rider thinking about a rat build, but with no welding experience, find a buddy with a modern wire welder and bum a demo. you'll be producing very acceptable welds in a short period of time.
I have access to a welder and a machine shop...neither are mine but my buddy works there and we can use it on weekends. And yes I can weld, though any part that would be better with TIG, my buddy does. I haven't learned that but I took MIG/arc in college.

I agree, the tasks really aren't that daunting, but some of us are far more mechanically inclined than others. For me, the only reason my build has taken me awhile and isn't as amazing as I would like is because of time and because the shop is 60 miles away. That involves riding my bike despite it not being complete...It's safe (sort of)
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:52 AM   #1353
Ridin'nFishin
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post

19/17 spoke wheels are available for the Versys too, bolt right on, so that's always an option.
What bike do these wheels come off?
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:04 AM   #1354
AeroEngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm204 View Post
I swapped forks, wheels, suspension on my Ninja 650r with no welding other than making the kickstand longer.
I'll have to look over your build again, I could have sworn brackets needed to be fabbed up for the pegs and foot controls.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:19 AM   #1355
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Sorry to ask for this, but I've searched all over the thread. It's probably on the one page I missed.

What's the little fairing are you running? I'm looking for something similar for a thinstrom build I'm doing.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:53 AM   #1356
pjm204
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Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
Sorry to ask for this, but I've searched all over the thread. It's probably on the one page I missed.

What's the little fairing are you running? I'm looking for something similar for a thinstrom build I'm doing.
Buell headlights, I'm guessing Buell flyscreen.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:42 AM   #1357
jdrocks OP
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Originally Posted by pjm204 View Post
I agree, the tasks really aren't that daunting...
shouldn't be. i view the build as a planned exercise, it's not a timed speed event. there's plenty of time to research everything, ask questions, formulate a design, check parts availability and cost.

then there's the ADV riding community...guy's that know these bikes backward and forward, down to each bolt. quite a resource at hand.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #1358
jdrocks OP
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Originally Posted by Multisurface Rider View Post
What bike do these wheels come off?
the whole new wheel assemblies are used on the Twisted Throttle Versys project bike. i forget the supplier, but it would be easy to find. you can get them sealed for tubeless tires.

might be an option for some guys.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:57 AM   #1359
pjm204
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Originally Posted by AeroEngineer View Post
I'll have to look over your build again, I could have sworn brackets needed to be fabbed up for the pegs and foot controls.

I haven't found the need yet to switch out the foot pegs or controls. I may switch to some Ully pegs just to lower them an inch or so. The 650R has you sitting upright, your legs are a bit behind you though.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #1360
jdrocks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
Sorry to ask for this, but I've searched all over the thread. It's probably on the one page I missed.

What's the little fairing are you running? I'm looking for something similar for a thinstrom build I'm doing.
i did use a small Buell fairing back on that first one in the winter of 2008-09, but it got trashed in that Montana wreck, and i wanted a different design anyway.

after studying some of the things done with parts of the rally fairings on factory bikes, i decided to make my own. getting a very uniform symmetrical shape with reasonable detail is difficult without spending a ton of time. the factory would use CAD software and a 3 axis router to produce the shape for a mold. i don't have one of those, but i do have a good eye, and decided to go where CAD and the 3 axis machine had already been. i started looking around for shapes i could use, and found this Saturn bumper cover in the ditch. junk to everyone, except me.



bumper covers are symmetrical for the most part, so i cut out the shapes i wanted from each half, then glued the halves back together to create a plug mold. the mold was intentionally left big so i could trim the part the way i wanted after it was cast in fiberglass.



from the left, plug mold, mold, part.



on the 2010 bike, i reshaped the fairing and ran it almost full height. for this more recent bike, i cut 2-3" off the height and reshaped it a little again.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:35 PM   #1361
OHjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
The Ninja 650R is nearly the same bike but with more power and street suspension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
the only advantages in starting with the ER6/650R is the cop motor, and the fact that they're more easily found cheap.
Isn't the peg position quite different? As I have been researching this, I think starting with a Versys gives the advantage in ergo's due to the pegs. JD - Did you ever use a 650r frame or have they all been Versys frames? How was the peg location difference for standing? LD comfort?

Regarding power. MCN Performance Index lists the following:

ER-6n - 65 rwhp; 44 rw torque (in-lbs)
650r ('06) - 61 rwhp; 43 rw tq
650r ('07) - 63 rwhp; 43 rw tq
Versys ('07) - 59 rwhp; 42 rw tq

I find it hard to wrap my head around the Ninja's 3-6 hp increase being that much of a difference. And, their reviews said that the Versys felt stronger/faster in day to day driving because the toque was greater lower down the rev range. I rode a Versys at the Kawi Demo Days and it seemed similar power-wise to my memory of the Wee I had (was riding an ST1300 at the time - so . . . ), but having never ridden a Ninja myself, I'm

Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:14 PM   #1362
pjm204
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I know with my ninja I'm currently running 15/48 gearing and an 18" rear wheel. It picks up the front wheel with a twist of the throttle in 1st and second with ease. I'm intending, based on Sanjoh's recommendation to gear it down with either a 14t front or 52t rear.

As for comfort, the stock peg position on the ninja isn't perfect but it can be adjusted easily with lower pegs or you can make new brackets and entirely change the riding position. I haven't decided whether or not I am going to make new peg brackets or not. All I know is that with my 18" rear and 21" front I will have almost 11" of ground clearance and a bike that handles dirt quite well


Quote:
Originally Posted by OHjim View Post
Isn't the peg position quite different? As I have been researching this, I think starting with a Versys gives the advantage in ergo's due to the pegs. JD - Did you ever use a 650r frame or have they all been Versys frames? How was the peg location difference for standing? LD comfort?

Regarding power. MCN Performance Index lists the following:

ER-6n - 65 rwhp; 44 rw torque (in-lbs)
650r ('06) - 61 rwhp; 43 rw tq
650r ('07) - 63 rwhp; 43 rw tq
Versys ('07) - 59 rwhp; 42 rw tq

I find it hard to wrap my head around the Ninja's 3-6 hp increase being that much of a difference. And, their reviews said that the Versys felt stronger/faster in day to day driving because the toque was greater lower down the rev range. I rode a Versys at the Kawi Demo Days and it seemed similar power-wise to my memory of the Wee I had (was riding an ST1300 at the time - so . . . ), but having never ridden a Ninja myself, I'm

Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #1363
jdrocks OP
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Originally Posted by MTrider16 View Post
Wow, I think those brackets are more stout than the frame. No need to find a welder when your back in the boonies.

David
had to make them extra strong, just in case i ride with one of those F800 guys, might be asked to help carry all those BMW spare parts.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #1364
jdrocks OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHjim View Post
Isn't the peg position quite different? As I have been researching this, I think starting with a Versys gives the advantage in ergo's due to the pegs. JD - Did you ever use a 650r frame or have they all been Versys frames? How was the peg location difference for standing? LD comfort?
my first two were ER6 based, while the current is built around the Versys frame. i think the footrest position on the ER6 is one of the things that should be addressed, not difficult, and ktmklx has some good photos in his build thread. change the footrests themselves at the same time. in contrast, i find the stock footrest position on the Versys, coupled with fastways or similar, and the right bar choice to be satisfactory.

i do think the cop motor makes a difference in these rat bikes even though 10% doesn't sound like a lot. i just don't hear the guys riding the Versys spec power talking about the way the bike runs using the same description i would use with cop spec power. i dare ya to try and out ride that cop motor on gravel, i don't have the cajones for it myself. as mentioned, i run stock gearing. i've said more than once about riding the cop motor bike on gravel "crack those throttle bodies WFO, get a freakin' heart attack".

regarding the Versys, if a little less motor is not a concern, you get a much better front end to either use or sell, 5 gallon tank, the foot rests as described, much better seat. if you use the Versys clamps, you get the bar riser too. there have been guys who have found a Versys as cheap as some of the ER6 bikes, there just aren't as many out there.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:35 PM   #1365
pjm204
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I can see after 300 miles on my dirt ninja that a quick crack of the throttle could leave you on your back if you're not careful. The front gets very light, very easily. It is an extremely fun bike to ride.
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