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Old 08-25-2011, 02:46 PM   #16
Jakub OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parx400 View Post
Ya I have done the same with some part numbers. I tried to see if the piston part number was the same between the single spark and the carb bike. The carb bike does not show the piston part number only, you have to buy the cylinder with it as a kit. The single and twin sparks use the same piston.

Even is the carb bike and the single spark had the same piston the combustion chamber may be different. The high compression piston has cut outs for the valves and if the chamber is different it may not fit at TDC.

It would be nice to find a Rotax Expert who knows all this stuff.

Someone needs to be our lab rat and try the cams and piston on their bike.

Your right about possible compression changes, the trick of course is what kind of riding you do, and where you are in the world.

I don't really anticipate going anywhere with my rallye bike where 89 octane can't be found. Here in Canada you can
find 94 in bigger towns. The trick is some of the ATV racing stuff is race gas only which is a no go for an Adv bike. With the GS/Dakar motor already running 11.5 to 1 compression I don't think you can more than one point up in compression with getting detonation. I think newer bike come with knock sensors so they run a reduced out on bad gas but I know the GS/Dakar BMS doesn't support that feature. Increasing bore and stroke and probably where the gains are to be made anyway.

Jakub
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #17
Parx400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub View Post
Your right about possible compression changes, the trick of course is what kind of riding you do, and where you are in the world.

I don't really anticipate going anywhere with my rallye bike where 89 octane can't be found. Here in Canada you can
find 94 in bigger towns. The trick is some of the ATV racing stuff is race gas only which is a no go for an Adv bike. With the GS/Dakar motor already running 11.5 to 1 compression I don't think you can more than one point up in compression with getting detonation. I think newer bike come with knock sensors so they run a reduced out on bad gas but I know the GS/Dakar BMS doesn't support that feature. Increasing bore and stroke and probably where the gains are to be made anyway.

Jakub
I didn't realize the bike was already 11.5 to 1. The HC piston for the DS650 stock bore bumps it up to 11.5 to 1. I guess that would not be useful then.

You right any increase could be an issue. My old wr400 and 450 had 12.5 to 1 but those have modern advanced combustion chambers.

I guess the next question is will some of the aftermarket cams for the DS fit the BMW. Lots of people advertise "sport cams" for the DS. I wonder if any of them would fit.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:08 PM   #18
Parx400
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What we should do is buy some used cams off of ebay and send them off to one of these companies to see if they are the same. There is a set for an 03 CS on ebay in Canada right now for 65 bucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bmw-c...#ht_915wt_1165

Any ways I sent an Email out to some of the DS650 cam makers asking them if they fit. If they dont know I'm going to pick those up and send them to them and see if they will work.

Cams from CT racing are only 350 for a set. Same price for the next stage that requires a 11.5 piston (we already have) plus stronger valve springs.

Parx400 screwed with this post 08-25-2011 at 03:27 PM
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #19
Parx400
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Lookie what I found.

http://crowerperformance.com/i-59128...otax-g650.html
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:58 PM   #20
Jakub OP
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Good find,

It's say they do it on exchange for $349? Does that mean if you send your
cam's they do it for 349 to your cams. Or is it $349 core charge??

If they can do it to your own cams that means the cam's a regrind vs
a cam cut of a new blank.

The extra 10mph thing is both impressive and nearly useless to me. It' obviously means
that the engine is breathing better, making more power, however my bike has
21/18 Michelin desert's and the touratech rallye kit and fully topped out in 5th it feel's
unrideable compared to my old 19/17 GS with sport rubber on it.

It'd be more interesting to see dyno numbers.

Still 10mph has to be something on the order of 5hp to 10hp right???

I wonder if fueling would need to be changed at all as I've heard early model single sparks run
pretty lean stock. My bike has a fuel nanny on it but I'm not really sure how "tuneable" it is. (ignition stuff etc.)

Parx400 do you have a stock fuel setup?

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Old 08-25-2011, 07:09 PM   #21
Parx400
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The price is 349 if you have a core. It sounds funny on the web site but if you look at the other custom stuff that's the way it reads.

Is a regrind bad?

This motor is super mild. I bet there is lots of room for power in the cams. I'm going to call them and get more info.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:05 PM   #22
Jakub OP
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From what I know there are two kinds of regrinding. The first is just regrinding the base

circle down and the second is adding material by welding and then grinding it down to

the desired specs. Regrinds I think are generally more mild compared to cam's off

of new blanks, I.E. Duration, and lift but that might be preference and what the application is.



I've heard new blanks are often better when it comes to valve geometry due to the fact a

plain regrind will need to have extra work done sometimes to compensate for the

reduced base circle. Also regrinds can suffer from wear because of the welding and then

improper heat treatment.

Although I think for a really mild application like ours it's probably not a big deal. Most

of the complaints of regrinds I've heard come from bench racers and really high spec

racing motors in professional motor sports etc.



If your going through all the work to have a custom regrind done on your cam's, a little

clean up port work on the cylinder heads seems super logical while your waiting for the

cams to come back.




Jakub

PS do you know if there testing was on a single or twin spark. They should be interchangeable but the fiche part numbers are different so some of the spec must be different, maybe to deal with the different shims?
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:59 AM   #23
Parx400
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I don't think you have to wait for them to come back. They probably stock a set and you exchange them. I'm going to buy a set of used cams off eBay to send in. Since I don't have to take the head off I'm not going to do any porting.

Since they list g650 in the name I assume that's the bike they made it for. The ds 650 came with shims on top but some of there high performance spring kits convert it to have them under. I will ask them if it's an issue.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:59 AM   #24
Parx400
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BTW my FI controller is great. I have a sebring pipe, K/N and the snorcal cut. Bike wont idle at all with out it. The settings they tell you to use though ware way to rich. I leaned mine out to what people on F650 faqs were using and its great right now. The Power commander would be a better choice. It plugs into the TPS and takes that into account. It also has a o2 sensor to keep the mixture at the same mix regardless of altitude or conditions outside.
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:27 PM   #25
Parx400
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I talked to crower,

The power increase will mostly be on the higher RPMs. He said send him a core and he will do them for 290 a set.
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:37 PM   #26
Jakub OP
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I talked to crower,

The power increase will mostly be on the higher RPMs. He said send him a core and he will do them for 290 a set.

Very cool news, Did you say you were using the Techlusion TFI controller for tuning ?


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Old 08-27-2011, 04:29 PM   #27
Parx400
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Very cool news, Did you say you were using the Techlusion TFI controller for tuning ?


Jakub
Yes
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:55 AM   #28
plukenannabel
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Talking

Hello Jakub, did not see your reply, excuse me.

Since i sold the bike 2 weeks ago i will not be able to make new pictures. Rear light is just a aftermarket led rearlight
Indicators and mirrors are to be installed in Holland, but never did

the luggage rack is self made.

The control units should still be sold bij TT, at least in germany they are.
wiring
right unit red power to injection/pump
grey start
switch normal/high beam
grey horn
center unit push button power on/off
grey lights on/off
left unit indicator
imo
roadbook

throttle is a short gas one, turns 100 degrees for full throttle, spares yours wrist and is good for binary driving
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:38 AM   #29
Parx400
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more cams

http://www.vertex-kolben.de/index2.p...n&HID=5&lan=en

Thats a good price. I wonder if the team Pami ones are priced with a set of new cams. Maybe they take will take off the core charge if you send a set in.

I think I'm going to start a thread on this topic.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:56 PM   #30
tmotten
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Amazing price difference. Not a lot of detail though.
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