BergDonk's DR650

[BergDonk]

Originally Posted by BergDonk

I love heated grips, and it was one of the first things I did to the DR after I got it. The 2 speed type that wrap around the bar and then you fit normal grips over the top in this case. Unfortunately after playing with the wiring of my lights, GPS, power extras and the forks on and off a few times, the resistor that is switched into the circuit for the low heat setting broke. It's been suggested a more efficient way to wire up the grips would be to have them in series for the low setting rather in parallel with the series resistor. I thought this was a good idea, thanks Ash, and came up with the following circuit which uses a DPDT centre off rather than the stock SPDT centre off.

No heat loss from the restistor, so more watts for something else on low setting, and one less thing to break again.

FWIW



Steve

Over a year ago I posted the above solution to my grip wiring after breaking the resistor. Worked OK, but the low heat setting wasn't great, and the high of course was high as normal.

Doing the sums tells why. The grips are about 8 ohms each, so are 18 w at 12 v so 36w total. When in series, its 16 ohms total for 9 watts total, so 1/4 the power for the series connection compared to the parallel. OK for a low setting, just, but something in between like the resistor solution would be nice too.

I could revert back to the original resistor solution, or install a flasher relay for a similar 18w total outcome.

On my 1400GTR I have some Oxford grips with a variable output controller which work well and gives me more options for heat settings. I thought it'd be nice to have something similar on the DR, its winter here now! I didn't want to lose the ability to use any dirt bike grips I like, so wanted to keep the existing heaters.

I tried to track down a variable controller and came up with some options, ending up with Tusk kit from eBay for $54 delivered. 10 days from the US. Just a controller only was more expensive. The kit is nominally for a snowmobile or ATV, so both grips are the same size inside, but didn't want them anyway, so cut them off and used the controller and harness attached to my original grips. 5 heat settings now.



The kit spread out.



The controller mounted up next to the headlight switch.


Steve

[BergDonk]

As mentioned above I was supposed to heading to Queensland right now, but failed, and am now back home

Rode the DR to Sydney on Weds, now Fri, to meet up with Tim who was heading to the OCR. My plan was to travel with him and meet up with a few others coming up from Vic at Hungerford, then on to Julia Creek, then separate, and while the rest kept heading north for Cape and the OCR, I would then head for Townsville solo and catch up with a mate then home. I expected to be away for 2 weeks, and no longer, as have family stuff to do in a couple of weeks. I expected to do 6-6,500 kms and didn't have time to get to the OCR this time.

Prior to the off, I did the usual service and once over which this time involved a new chain and countershaft sprocket, a new cush drive bearing, and fresh oil.

I had previously noted the counter shaft seal starting to weep just a smidgen, so I changed it last week before I did the oil change. I knew it was coming, and had a fresh seal in the shed waiting. And because I knew I would be changing it, had another as well, so as to have a spare just in case after the change. I figured 47,000 kms for a cs seal was OK too.

I did the seal swap easily enough, bash the one in situ a bit to shrink the outer and lever it out, as I've done numerous times in the past on other bikes. All good. Press in the new seal with a large socket so it sitting just right, with the outer face in line with the bevel in the housing. No leaks, confirmed by a test ride. The ride was also the warm up for oil so I could dump it. Fresh Delo 400, and a filter, and good to go.

So loaded up the bike Tuesday, and ready for the off Wednesday. Out to the shed after the frost melted with plans to head to Sydney the back way. Roll the bike out of the shed, lock the shed up, and kiss SWMBO goodbye. It was her one morning off a week from work. I fired up the mighty DR and killed the choke after 15 secs or so like normal, and clicked into gear and off. A couple of seconds later, my attention was drawn to SWMBO yelling STOP, STOP, STOP.

What had I forgotten?

"Look down" she said. There was a large puddle of oil. "Bummer" I thought, "What's broken now? What have I stuffed up?"



Above is a pic of the oil trail. Bike was started on the concrete where most of the oil was dumped, but cleaned up before the pic.

'Hmmmmm, popped the cs seal" I suspected.

Rolled back into the shed and sure enough, the cs seal had popped. What to do? I pushed the seal back in, and wondered. I put 4 'dabs' epoxy metal on it to act as a keeper, and a couple of old seals I had lying about with the same ID. My thinking was that if it popped again, at least it couldn't fall out like it'd just done. Top up with 500 ml of oil and head north, and hour later than planned. No worries, just go a more direct route, and keep looking down at my left foot.

And wonder what might have been if my wife hadn't been there to wave me off. Fried engine? Crash on the twisties outside my gate with a rear tyre covered in oil

Stopped and checked it a couple of times enroute, and no problems, so one of those things?

Met up with Tim as planned, and next morning, Thursday, yesterday, 08.00, and we are off. I needed to top up with fuel, so 10 kms or so up Windsor Road, pull in to the servo, fuel up and have a look at the cs sprocket area and it wet with fresh oil.

BUGGER

So it seems that on 2 consecutive cold starts, the new seal has popped. Not catastrophically this time as my old seal spacers had worked as intended, but what to do? Tim said there was a bike shop a bit up the road at Windsor, so we pulled in there. I had the sprocket cover off, and the cs sprocket off just as the service manager for Hawkesbury Honda, Eric, came over to see what was going on. I had my back up fresh seal with me, and he seemed impressed. He took control, and I watched. After some discussion and checking, he inserted the new seal, commenting that it seemed to go in too easy. Fired it up, and all good.

What now concerned me was that we were heading over the mountains, west and north, and further away from help, spares, and my shed. I didn't have another cs seal, and what if it popped tomorrow on the next cold start. And why was it popping on cold starts?

Seals can pop from too much crankcase pressure which is something that happens at higher revs. This had gone with a cold engine at just over idle revs. A check of the oil flow diagram by Eric confirmed that the cs area gets pressurised oil.



You tend to get max oil pressure when the oil is cold, so, dunno? No issues with the housing in the case, as confirmed with Eric, and using Suzuki genuine seals. Eric checked the crank breather too, and all good, so WHY?

I sent Tim on his way solo and headed south for home, keeping an eye on my left foot.

Cruising down the Hume in case I needed mobile phone contact to call SWMBO to come and get me, I contemplated the problem, and kept an eye on my left foot.

I decided I would manufacture a seal 'keeper' so it couldn't pop again. I called in to Dahlitz in Queanbeyan and ordered a couple of new seals and then headed over to Fyshwick to get some 90 mm nylon bar. Cruising the Hume, I had developed a plan.

I arrived home about 17:30, and surprised SWMBO when she got home a few hours later.

Out to the shed this morning and unload the bike, then have a good look, and refine the plan.



Above you can see that the second new seal was still in place and there is some evidence of the 'dabs' of epoxy I'd applied, that had mostly 'gone walkabout'.





Above is similar pic, but if you look closely, you can see the old seal spacers I put in place, just in case.





Above is the cardboard template, then a version in 2 mm Al sheet, and then a slighlty different version, and hopefully the final one, Al in 3 mm sheet. Right to left.





Above is the 3 mm version bolted up. I've used the top 2 bolts from the gear shift cover, and the rear crank case bolt. A bit tricky getting all the spacers the right length. The crank case bolt is actually replaced with a stud I made up. Everything seems like it'll clear the chain, and the cover bolts up like normal.

Tomorrow, I plan to machine up some nylon that'll attach to the plate and lock the seal in place.

In summary, with nothing other than a fresh cs seal and oil it now pops them on a cold start. The oil is the same I've been using in it for the last 40,000 kms. I don't want to glue the seal in because that can be problematic when I have to change it later. I also recall that the big DR thread has had reported a few cs seals popping too, but I don't recall any analysis, or what the posters did to fix it.

More to come.
Steve

[BergDonk]

Seems like its not as uncommon as I'd thought:
https://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&gs_...pw.r_qf.&cad=b

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=811368

[Bushmechanic]

nice one steve that's not coming back out

my berg sucks the crank seals in cause I run a second reed valve over the upper hole near the intermediate shaft, loctite 401 works good with rubber to ally gotta be quick to press them in though.

[BergDonk]

The countershaft is the lower of the 2 above, and the output is on the left. The section shows the sprocket and its retainer, and the chain.




Having a closer look at the lube system. Apparently we have a pressurised feed to the countershaft from the crank case between the seal and bearing. The above diagrams don't seem to confirm that though. It then goes into the shaft and out at appropriate locations. I'm not convinced its blocked in any way, but I guess I can't be certain. I think the ease with which the replacement seals went in is the clue. There is also no play in the cs bearing FWIW. There is however no doubt that there is pressurised oil behind the seal.

[BergDonk]

Whizzing up some spacers for the plate to get it the right distance from the crankcase. Each of the 3 bolts/studs used needs a different length to get it to line up properly.




Paring off the 90 mm diameter retainer. Note the 'lip' that will protrude into the case and make contact with the seal, which sits <> 1 mm below/inside the case.




The nylon bit now bolted with countersunk 5 mm screws and nylocks to the plate. Nice and snug.




Should be enough clearance, <> 1 mm from the pins on the RK EXW which is 1 mm overall wider than the DID VMs used previously. Might not fit with a stock 525 though, I'm using a 520.




All back together, started up, and the seal is retained.

What's next, 3rd gear?

[BergDonk]

Originally Posted by Bushmechanic

nice one steve that's not coming back out

my berg sucks the crank seals in cause I run a second reed valve over the upper hole near the intermediate shaft, loctite 401 works good with rubber to ally gotta be quick to press them in though.

Cheers Bushy, it will not blow out now.

I recall my old IT490 used to suck base gaskets into the transfer ports. Wasn't much meat there. I ended up making my own 'different' gaskets that stayed put. Always something to fix

I didn't want to glue the seal in place the other day as it would have delayed my departure waiting for it to go off, not that I got where I'd planned anyway

If I had glued it in, cleaning up next time I have to swap the seal would increase the chances of getting crud into the cs bearing and inside, so I wasn't keen on the idea. No doubt a possible expedient fix though, and if I couldn't figure a out a suitable keeper, would have happened.

[BergDonk]

On a more positive note, the new grip controller works great, recommended.

[DRjoe]

nova racing has a lovely new machined third gear set that you could fit for a bit of insurance against a blown gear box.

[BergDonk]

Originally Posted by DRjoe

nova racing has a lovely new machined third gear set that you could fit for a bit of insurance against a blown gear box.

But I wasn't planning on pulling it down until at least 200,000 kms...............

[BergDonk]

A bit of notchiness was developing in the head bearings, so time for some new bearings, and an upgrade, hopefully.

As you may recall, I fitted some KTM forks to my DR at the beginning of last year, just on 30,000 kms ago, and near the beginning of this thread. I initially fitted the KTM races to the Suzi cups, but this failed, so lathed up some bushes to go around the KTM cups and got them to equal the Suzi dimension, 52 mm OD.



They fitted up fine, top and bottom with new bearings at the time,



After some thought, and not long after I'd got it operational, I decided that when it came time, I'd try to fit the Suzi bearing to the bottom of the steering head. This seems like a good idea because the Suzi bearing is 1 mm taller, so may have a <> 10% increased load capacity, and/or, wear out slower. Its normally the bottom ones that are the problem, as they take the hammering. And because the ID is 1 mm larger, it'd fall over the shaft on the top down to the bottom, making assembly easier, as long as the bush could be fitted to get it to work.

I already had a new set of Suzi bearings unused from last time, so ordered some new KTM ones.



In the above pic, on the left on the blue rag is one of two original spacers from the stock forks. Heavy lumps of steel bushing that usually get junked for some plastic ones when they are upgraded. They proved to be very useful for this exercise.

So, disassemble front end, making use of the engine crane so not too much had to come apart.



I needed to sleeve the KTM shaft on the bottom with a 0.5 mm thick bush. Back to the lathe, and thinning down one of the original spring spacers as a bush, and boring the other to make it into a die to press the bush on over the shaft I got the Suzi race fitting snugly. You can just see the bush in the pic below.



After deciding that it should be OK, I hammered out the existing cups. What was nice was that my bushes stayed put. Meant that I had to remove the bottom one afterwards to fit the Suzi cup, but the top one could stay put for the new KTM bearing going there. Bit hard to see in the pic below, but its still there.



So all bolted back together, and good to go. And I've got a set of bearings left over for next time, one of each of the Suzi and KTM pairs. FWIW, both sets are Pyramid parts purchased on eBay. More than 30,000 kms would have been nice, but its had a bit of a flogging, so OK life, I think.

And the value of having a lathe and a good press validated once again.

[Snowy]

Well, that has to be the most interesting way I've seen of stopping the seal from popping.

Mine wore through the lip in the seal at about the 45,000km mark, which happened to correspond with me stopping at the Suspension Smith in Fyshwick.

Laurie pointed at the oil pissing from the bike and suggested I had some issues.

People thinking I have issues isn't news to me....then I realised he meant the puddle of engine oil under the bike. Given the full synthetic fancy pants oil and all the additives I use it was about a $70 puddle.

I just rode it home as it was and had oil spread from ass hole to ear hole by the time I got there. No oil in sump anymore.


Bunged a new seal in, presto. Still going strong. How many seals have you changed in yours Steve?

[BergDonk]

Originally Posted by Snowy

Bunged a new seal in, presto. Still going strong. How many seals have you changed in yours Steve?

This was the first time, and as noted above, took two to get me home. So 48105 kms. It probably would have got me to Qld and back, it wasn't weeping much, maybe not at all, but I prefer preventative maintenance. The second one is in place now with the keeper. Haven't ridden it anywhere yet as I've been busy with stuff, and decided to sidetrack with the steering head, and its was sitting in pieces until the new bearings arrived. Might get out in the next day or so. No shed or ride time today as we are supposed to be doing a burn.

[BergDonk]

I just spotted this update on another thread:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=25

2 bikes, 2 popped seals, and new cases under warranty.

I did use some connections I have into the back door of Suzuki here in Oz, and they have not heard of any cs seal issues at all, but will admit that there has been the odd 3rd gear failure. Dunno whether they would publicly though.

[BergDonk]

No burn today after they realised the weather would close in and be unsuitable. Which meant that I could get a test ride in. Did about 100 kms of varied terrain, a few jumps, some rocky bits, and gravel roads. I wanted to get the rear suspension working through full travel, and make sure the steering head was all seated.

All good, no play in the steering head, and its steering sweetly again. No contact from the chain or css with my seal keeper.

I also had a new rear tyre to try, a Sava MC23:
http://www.savatyres.com.au/DualSport.html

I quite like the look of the tread pattern, which may or may not mean anything, but whatever. Not much use to DR riders as they don't currently list a 17". Firstly, the sidewall is short, so a 120/90/18 Sava compared to Dunlop 606 of the same size is the same width, but about 12 mm shorter, or 25 mm overall diameter less. I pulled the forks up 7 mm to compensate somewhat. First riding impression is that it hooks up well, finding grip cutting through the ball bearing gravel, and seems like a good match with the Scorpion Rally up front. More kms will reveal more.

Till the next installment....