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Old 05-01-2009, 09:24 AM   #1
BMWzenrider OP
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Reverse Gear Options For my Rig?

Current Rig:
Tug - 2005 BMW R1200RT ~18,000 miles (and rising!) w/15" car tire conversion on rear, otherwise pretty stock.
Chair - 2008 Hannigan LT, custom heated & lowered seat



The NEED:
A way to back up the beast when my bad knees prevent me from doing it on my own. Especially on girlfriends broken up and frost-heaved driveway slabs, and in snow/slush, and uphill parking spaces...

The reason:
Titanium rod inside of left femur, stainless plate along upper half of left tibia, pins & screw in left knee, right knee can fold backwards about 10 degrees if I am not careful due to unrepaired damage to three of the four ligaments which hold that knee together...
Not as much strength in either of them as in the old days...

----------

Resources on hand:
Spare 6-speed R1200 transmission sourced for the project from a R1200R (just in case).
Spare final drive from same R1200R (slightly lower final drive ratio than the RT, but that would be OK for better takeoffs...)
Lots of spare tubing, stainless sheet stock, and an account at fastenal and the local metal supply shop.
Experience with fiberglass mold making and glassing.
Oxy/Acetylene torch kit as well as wire welder outfits.
Various shop tools, drill press, taps/dies, calipers, etc...
A brother who is a tool-n-die maker at Harley who can make some parts for me on the side...

AND
A mechanical engineering degree that is just going to waste,
and lots of free time to get into trouble with...

------------------------
Just brainstorming here...
------------------------

The ULTIMATE would be to have an in-the-gearbox reverse gear setup similar to what I had installed on my last rig. That one was a BMW R100RT with a reverse gearbox built up by Motoren Israel.
That setup left all the stock components inside and just tacked on the reversing jackshaft to the outside of the case. The upside of that setup is that the transmission was still servicable with stock parts from any dealer, and that you could actually engage the transmission, and then the reverse jackshaft when the engine was off, to use it as a driveline locking devise for a positive parking brake on steep parking slopes.



I even rigged mine with a rotary switch from the sidestand of an oilhead to trigger the backup light module in the Escort sidecar I had attached. Freaked some people out to see a backup light turn on on a motorcycle!!!

-------

Another other option would be something similar to what W.Kayser has done for other BMW and Guzzi models.
They change the gear clusters and add an internal jack-gear. Essentially turning first gear into reverse with an electrical lockout on the shifting cam to keep from accidentally shifting from second (now first) directly into reverse.
That is a MUCH more complicated way to do things, and more expensive.
AND, if your transmission ever needs servicing, you are forced to ship it back to Germany to them, as everything inside is custom built...

I will try to post scans of the flyer of what W.Kayser offers in this thread soon.

---------

One more way to do it would be like Claude did with Sarge's K-monster. Some sort of friction drive onto the drive or sidecar wheel with an electric motor.

Or a disengageable drive system to the sidecar wheel.
Or something like that...

----------

Did I miss anything???

Does anyone have any examples of how they did something similar that might be adapted?

Does anyone have experience with doing reverse on a BMW R1200???
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2005 BMW R1200RT w/Hannigan-LT sidecar
2002 BMW R1150RA
In Memoriam: Harley, 1993-2010 You will be missed.
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:51 AM   #2
BMWzenrider OP
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links to W.Kayser Brochure pages

Here are the links to where I posted the scanned pages of the W.Kayser brochure.

I decided that the .jpg files may be a bit large to post directly into a message here...

http://www.theroadscholar.net/Motorcycle_Tech.htm

For the BMW reverse gear specific pages:
http://www.theroadscholar.net/images...age_7_of_8.jpg
http://www.theroadscholar.net/images...age_8_of_8.jpg

The German-to-English translation pages that I input the text into were pretty pitiful, so if anyone would like to offer up a translation of the text for the reverse gear pages for the R1100, R1200, and 1974-95 model versions, I would appreciate it!

They also offer a reverse gear inside the case for some Guzzi models on the bottom of page 6 for anyone who is interested.
As well as sport gearboxes for BMW's with extra gears added in, and higher/lower gearing, etc...
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:01 AM   #3
PaulRS
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Check out the caravan mover.

They use a 12V e-motor and a friction roller on an excentric.
Pull a lever and the roller hits the tire, press button and the wheel is driven.

Mount it to the rear wheel or sidecar, as you please

RS-wife has a 1500kgs caravan equiped with such a system and you can move it anywhere, anyway you like, by a press on the remote control.

Paul.
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRS
Check out the caravan mover.
Do you have a link to such an animal???
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2002 BMW R1150RA
In Memoriam: Harley, 1993-2010 You will be missed.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:14 PM   #5
lesman
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I Looked a the Caravan Mover. It's way overkill but it's so cool.
http://www.powrwheel.com/
It even has a remote control.




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Old 05-02-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
halflive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider
Do you have a link to such an animal???
http://www.google.nl/search?as_q=car...s=&safe=images

using dutch google, query english
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:34 PM   #7
Egads1
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Reverse gear

Harley used to offer an electric reverse on the sidecar wheel. Easy to install and worked great if installed correctly. You could get the diagram from a harley dealer and make your own.
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:16 PM   #8
Sidecar Sarge
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I've been interested in reverse myself. I found this article in a 1985 issue of "Sidecarist" magazine. I spoke with the fellow last week and he advised he hasn't even owned a cycle in some years and anyone was free to use his idea.

Sorry for the poor copy, but it is the best I could do.

Sarge

http://sidecarsarge.webs.com/reverse.bmp
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:28 AM   #9
Richard-NL
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By coincidence I shot this picture this weekend, but I’ve seen the same before:



Richard-NL
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:27 AM   #10
claude
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The friction drive reverse on Sarge's K Monster works well but the roller should be something similar to what RichardNL posted and not rubber. We have backed it over a double 2x4 standing on edge (3 1/2") and up a hill with no issues.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:24 AM   #11
BMWzenrider OP
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Thank you to everyone for the feedback!

Richard-NL, any idea what kind of drive motor and actuation that unit was using???

I had been thinking about using a 12volt winch head to get the torque required in a compact package, but that motor unit looks even more compact.

-----

There have been several ideas about driving off of the sidecar wheel, but there really isn't much room available over there, and there may be issues with reduced traction because of the sidecar wheel having so much less load on it than the drive wheel of the bike.

-----

With the hollow final drive axle on the R1200, I even envisioned something mounted on the subframe that would grab the inside of the drive tube to engage reverse. Similar to the way that Mobec modifies the BMW final drives for the Duo and Super drive units.


http://www.mobec-international.com/r...rive/index.php

Maybe even mount the Duo-Drive unit to the Hannigan sidecar somehow, and then add a separate clutch engageable electric motor to it for reverse???

Now THAT would be fun!!!
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2005 BMW R1200RT w/Hannigan-LT sidecar
2002 BMW R1150RA
In Memoriam: Harley, 1993-2010 You will be missed.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #12
Sidecar Sarge
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Speaking of winches....

Here's a downward-looking photo of the drive Claude built for my K-Monster. The reverse drive, a Harbor Freight 12v winch, takes the place previously occupied by the bike's battery. (Rig converted to car battery.) As he mentioned, the rubber drive wheel works OK but a toothed metal wheel would work much better. Using the winch was my idea as it provided gear reduction with no further fuss nor muss.

Sarge




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Old 05-05-2009, 08:16 PM   #13
BMWzenrider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidecar Sarge
Speaking of winches....

Here's a downward-looking photo of the drive Claude built for my K-Monster. The reverse drive, a Harbor Freight 12v winch, takes the place previously occupied by the bike's battery.
Thanks Sarge,
Yes, I have seen your conversion before.

My bike has the battery in a different location, and electronics in the space where your battery sat.
Not to mention all the nasty weather that I drive in...

I would need to find a way to sheild the area pretty well.

-----

I'm thinking that hub driven or in-the-gearbox may be the best options for the abusive conditions that I ride in...
Although it WILL be more expensive...
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2005 BMW R1200RT w/Hannigan-LT sidecar
2002 BMW R1150RA
In Memoriam: Harley, 1993-2010 You will be missed.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:21 AM   #14
gusanito
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Warning

Karl,

When I clicked on your evolutioncycles link below your sig, my Avast anti-virus went nuts, warning me a trojan was trying to upload from that site. You may want to run a scan.

George
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:18 PM   #15
BMWzenrider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusanito
When I clicked on your evolutioncycles link below your sig, my Avast anti-virus went nuts, warning me a trojan was trying to upload from that site. You may want to run a scan.
I don't know why that would be. I built the page myself and several sites check it for threats regularly and have never reported any problems.

Just did another check tonight came up with the same clean result.
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2005 BMW R1200RT w/Hannigan-LT sidecar
2002 BMW R1150RA
In Memoriam: Harley, 1993-2010 You will be missed.
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