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Old 10-28-2013, 05:42 PM   #1
Jdeks OP
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What to look for with a borescope

So I've got an 85000 km / 53 000 mile 2004 Adv. It's had a few things lately that make me suspect its burning oil and that I may have a leakey head gasket and/or dodgy rings.

So I've got myself a borescope. Only thing is, I don't know how to use it

What I should be looking for when I peer about inside the cylinder? Certain wear patterrns on the nikasil, carbon buildup in certain places?

Cheers!
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:59 PM   #2
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Bore hunting?
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:20 PM   #3
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It's not as boreing as it sounds!!
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:43 PM   #4
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Just stick it in something and look around...just sayin
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #5
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I've used these a zillion times on outboards. You will see damage, but you won't see worn out rings. You can see cross hatch and gouges from busted rings though as well as carbon build up.
If your not looking for obvious damage, a leak down is probably what you need at this time. That will give you actual numbers to verify the condition of each cylinder.
But bore scopes are fun, and now affordable to the masses. Let the scoping begin!
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ricohman View Post
You will see damage, but you won't see worn out rings. You can see cross hatch and gouges from busted rings though as well as carbon build up.
If your not looking for obvious damage, a leak down is probably what you need at this time.

Cheers! That what I expected, but I'm not familiar with what cross-hatching looks like, how to spot gouges (are they obvious?), and how much carbon build up is too much, and where it should (or shouldn't?) be.

Got a leakdown test scheduled too, next week
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:01 PM   #7
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Look for gouges in the cylinder walls = broken rings, getting common on high mile LC8's.
Look at the intake valve seats - cupping = wear.
Look at excessive carbon on the intake valve = leaky valve stem seals.
Same for exhaust valves.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:27 PM   #8
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Look for gouges in the cylinder walls = broken rings, getting common on high mile LC8's.
Look at the intake valve seats - cupping = wear.
Look at excessive carbon on the intake valve = leaky valve stem seals.
Same for exhaust valves.

Awesome, thanks....but what's valve seat 'cupping', what does it look like? And how much carbon is 'excessive'?

Sorry if these seem like idiot-grade questions. I've seen these terms used a lot, but they're never really explained/described.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:53 AM   #9
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Have you done a leakdown or a compression test of it yet? That'd be the first thing I'd check.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:30 AM   #10
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I have indeed! Two, in fact. The first mechanic said leakdown was "acceptable", without giving a number, but he also said compression was 240psi, which made me skeptical. So I got a second one done - they said 140psi, 2% leakage.

But it still blows a little smoke, and I've got the 'scope, and I'm a paranoid sorta fellow

I've got leakdown #3 booked for next monday
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdeks View Post
I have indeed! Two, in fact. The first mechanic said leakdown was "acceptable", without giving a number, but he also said compression was 240psi, which made me skeptical. So I got a second one done - they said 140psi, 2% leakage.

But it still blows a little smoke, and I've got the 'scope, and I'm a paranoid sorta fellow

I've got leakdown #3 booked for next monday

Busted rings will leaves vertical gouges.
But.....broken oil rings sometimes leave no marks at all. Your smoke is oil getting in through the valve stems or left from the oil scraper rings. A leakdown will not tell you if the stems are worn.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jdeks View Post
But it still blows a little smoke, and I've got the 'scope, and I'm a paranoid sorta fellow
"Generally" if it smokes continuously or at first start up the problem is valve seals. If it smokes after deceleration the problem is rings.

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Old 10-29-2013, 07:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricohman View Post
Busted rings will leaves vertical gouges.
But.....broken oil rings sometimes leave no marks at all. Your smoke is oil getting in through the valve stems or left from the oil scraper rings. A leakdown will not tell you if the stems are worn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
"Generally" if it smokes continuously or at first start up the problem is valve seals. If it smokes after deceleration the problem is rings.

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Listen to these guy, they know wtf they're talking about.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:49 AM   #14
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This is utter bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
"Generally" if it smokes continuously or at first start up the problem is valve seals. If it smokes after deceleration the problem is rings.

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Old 10-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #15
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This is utter bullshit.
Not universally true but not bullshit either for a four stroke engine with overhead valves. The manner in which an engine smokes can provide hints on the mechanism allowing oil into the combustion chamber. Catalytic converters make things more complicated because the oil is burned without blue smoke when they are up to temperature. Horizontal cylinders, such as a BMW R series, have their own nuanced symptoms. Total bullshit for two strokes, diesels, and side valve four strokes.

Valves leak because oil bypasses the seals from gravity. The first puff at startup results from oil draining past the seals as it sits. The steady smoke comes from oil draining passed the seals as they operate. It is a constant flow of oil not influenced greatly by throttle position.

Closing the throttle at speed creates a strong vacuum on the intake stroke. This will pull more oil past the rings than usual and the combustion is weak so oil accumulates in the chamber. Open the throttle again and you get a puff of smoke.

Sparrowhawk screwed with this post 10-29-2013 at 01:01 PM
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