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Old 01-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #1
The Raven OP
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Leaking trans input seal...not sure

If you've been following my rebuild thread, you are aware that I pulled the trans yesterday and found the splines to be bone dry and rusted. You also saw in the photos that the below the clutch and in the trans bellows there was some oil and grease. Some of this grease was the moly spline lube that got thrown. There was also some other oil as well though.

I read the experts site with the compulsory welding glasses and he states that a seal replacement can be easy if it comes out or difficult if it does not....he also says that a leaking seal would result in oily splines and a slipping clutch.....I have the opposite...rusty splines and a grabby clutch.

I have smelled the oil and it does not have a strong sulfur smell. The only place I can find any hint of sulfur is if I pick some moly crud out of around the seal and shaft gap....probably due to weeping.

All you see this photo is sticky and goopy, not runny and oily. A NAPA moly spline paste was used..not the best stuff



What are your thoughts?

The Raven screwed with this post 01-08-2011 at 09:42 AM
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:39 AM   #2
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I think I'll have breakfast
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:41 AM   #3
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I think I'll have breakfast
I had some already; homemade waffles, VT maple syrup with melted butter heated on the wood stove. That and fresh coffee
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:43 AM   #4
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Seriously though...Since the crud around the seal doesn't appear to be tranny fluid, I'd clean it up, apply the correct grease to the splines (can't tell if the splines took a hit or not from the picture) and reassemble with the new clutch plate.

A leaking seal would have way more spray pattern and you could tell from the smell. Doesn't appear to be the case here. The little bit of spray on the seal could be the remnants of whatever oil/grease/whatever was used before.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:44 AM   #5
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I was thinking egg benedict...Californian ya know
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:52 AM   #6
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I was thinking egg benedict...Californian ya know
I don't know, in CA I would think something along the lines of Huevos Rancheros with refried beans would be something I'd be looking at having

Thanks for the trans info, I have a plate coming, and the splines are in good shape. I should be good to go



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Old 01-08-2011, 10:16 AM   #7
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I would replace. Coming from me that says alot, cuz I'm a lazy bastard.
This would end as one of those moments of " dogdammit, I
knew I should have replaced that effin seal while I had the box out!! $*^%#@%@ "
But hey, that's just me.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:33 AM   #8
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I would replace. Coming from me that says alot, cuz I'm a lazy bastard.
This would end as one of those moments of " dogdammit, I
knew I should have replaced that effin seal while I had the box out!! $*^%#@%@ "
But hey, that's just me.
Ehe, with my luck the seal would be welded in there and I would have to open the case and spend more money. This is the third time I have had this trans out of this bike and it's been about 9 months. If it fails....I can pull it and fix it then.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:03 AM   #9
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Warning, I ended up ranting. It happens when you care.

First off: Dry and rusty splines. That is how even grossly over lubed splines like I suspect yours were get real quick. Don't expect those splines to stay wet because they don't. Therein lies the importance of using moly lube. It lubricates after it is dry.

Personally, I would replace the seal because I can't imagine how the splines could get THAT over lubed but . . . . That seal can be a bugger to get out without tearing the seal boss and/or the shaft's sealing surface up. I have been running into a bunch of that in the last few years so beware. The seal can come out without disassembling the tranny. I have some custom tools for it that make the job much easier in my opinion. They are common seal pullers ground to a much thinner thickness.

You should stop and ask yourself why you need to pull it apart so much. I suspect the answer is doing a half ass job. Do it right. Maybe it is money but saving money that way really cost you money and TIME that you could be riding! You will actually be learning how to wrench well instead of just hacking. MUCH better for the bike AND the soul! I hope you take this as good advise and not criticism.

When I was a kid people didn't learn how to wrench on rare and classic machines. They saved that for the more common stuff. I always advise to learn how to work on Kawasaki KE100's or the like. When you irreversibly hack one of those up, who cares? They spit them out by the Mcmillions AND they still make them I believe. It's just that I have been seeing some needlessly hacked up airheads lately. It's a shame IMO.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:26 AM   #10
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Hey, no worries on the rant. I do it far too much as well. That's what happens when impassioned folks get involved with things.

Like you I have seen far too many airheads get buggard up so I know far too well where you are coming from. This is also the reason I'm not going to pull it for now. The oil you see is not hypoid. Its engine oil. I would imagine it is getting sucked up by the low pressure formed by the rotating flywheel from here:




For an explanation on my history with this bike and why I've had to pull the trans three times. Read this post, not half ass, well maybe quarter assed: Am I crazy or go for it


Thank you though for your concern




Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
First off: Dry and rusty splines. That is how even grossly over lubed splines like I suspect yours were get real quick. Don't expect those splines to stay wet because they don't. Therein lies the importance of using moly lube. It lubricates after it is dry.

Personally, I would replace the seal because I can't imagine how the splines could get THAT over lubed but . . . . That seal can be a bugger to get out without tearing the seal boss and/or the shaft's sealing surface up. I have been running into a bunch of that in the last few years so beware. The seal can come out without disassembling the tranny. I have some custom tools for it that make the job much easier in my opinion. They are common seal pullers ground to a much thinner thickness.

You should stop and ask yourself why you need to pull it apart so much. I suspect the answer is doing a half ass job. Do it right. Maybe it is money but saving money that way really cost you money and TIME that you could be riding! You will actually be learning how to wrench well instead of just hacking. MUCH better for the bike AND the soul! I hope you take this as good advise and not criticism.

When I was a kid people didn't learn how to wrench on rare and classic machines. They saved that for the more common stuff. I always advise to learn how to work on Kawasaki KE100's or the like. When you irreversibly hack one of those up, who cares? They spit them out by the Mcmillions AND they still make them I believe. It's just that I have been seeing some needlessly hacked up airheads lately. It's a shame IMO.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:15 PM   #11
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First off...
Supershaft! I've been waiting for you to chime in here. Glad to see you're still watching.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Raven View Post
Hey, no worries on the rant. I do it far too much as well. That's what happens when impassioned folks get involved with things.

Like you I have seen far too many airheads get buggard up so I know far too well where you are coming from. This is also the reason I'm not going to pull it for now. The oil you see is not hypoid. Its engine oil. I would imagine it is getting sucked up by the low pressure formed by the rotating flywheel from here:




For an explanation on my history with this bike and why I've had to pull the trans three times. Read this post, not half ass, well maybe quarter assed: Am I crazy or go for it


Thank you though for your concern
THAT'S why I don't know what is going on! For some reason, I tend to avoid threads that get too long IMO. Obviously some people like them but I guess I don't for some reason?

Thanks TR for reading my rant with your boots on. This is the idiotnet after all. You have GOT to keep your boots on!!
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:55 PM   #13
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Supershaft! I've been waiting for you to chime in here. Glad to see you're still watching.
Thanks fishkens! I was away from my computer for a while but I am back!
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:27 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
THAT'S why I don't know what is going on! For some reason, I tend to avoid threads that get too long IMO. Obviously some people like them but I guess I don't for some reason?

Thanks TR for reading my rant with your boots on. This is the idiotnet after all. You have GOT to keep your boots on!!
No prob, feel free to comment on any of my stuff...I like your bluntness
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:44 PM   #15
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Raven:

1. I'd replace. It's a cheap part and easy to do. Did it on mine in 10 minutes.
2. Your pictures are getting much better. A good thread like yours is 10x as nice when we can see how f**ked up your bike is. Are you using the G12?

I just got done with 5 hours of Matt Parkhouse. My R100GS is ready to hit the road to it's new owner.

Tom
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