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Old 05-09-2011, 11:55 AM   #796
Fishfund OP
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Location: Lansing, MI
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Bike Problem Check List

Quote:
Originally Posted by soph9 View Post
never said KTM sucks but it is quite interesting to be able to do a side by side comparison and see what bike has had more issues with the same riding environments.... find it interesting that one bike is having more serious issues than the other that's all.
I think this is a good idea. We are going to break down the problems into "Majors" and "Minors" This will be for the life of the bike since new. Nick's bike has 14,000 miles. I have 10,000.

BMW F800GS

Majors
1. Fuel Pump Failure
2. Water Pump leak (replaced under warranty)
3. Wheel Bering Failure in rear wheel

Minors
1. Bolt in clutch vibrated loose
2. Front Rim dented to unridable
3. Kick stand switch failure
4. Frame tweaked causing the rear brake to lock and seize the wheel.
5. Fork seals leak

KTM 690E

Majors
1. Fuel Pump Failure
2. Fuel code flashes and the bike runs in emergency mode. We can not fix this problem.

Minors
1. clutch lever leaks a bit
2. coil wire broke 5 times
3. ground to regulator broke once
4. mirror broke off from vibrations

Looks like I'm winning, on both majors and minors, BUT and this is a HUGE BUT. My one major problem can not be understood or resolved, so I think that trumps everything and Nick does win.
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Old 05-09-2011, 12:07 PM   #797
Dorzok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfund View Post

Looks like I'm winning, on both majors and minors, BUT and this is a HUGE BUT. My one major problem can not be understood or resolved, so I think that trumps everything and Nick does win.
so, the final word is that Dominic's tune ended up not working?? did i miss that someplace?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:56 PM   #798
TK-LA
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I said it before and I'll say it again; time to pick up one of those little chinese bikes, (250 maybe).
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:59 PM   #799
Fuat Domanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorzok View Post
so, the final word is that Dominic's tune ended up not working?? did i miss that someplace?
It was not a 'tune' but a standart map re-install and tps adjustment via diagnostic tool. Apparently it worked well from Istanbul to Romania. I suspect a harness cable intermittant connection around the neighbourhood of throttle sensors...
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuat Domanic View Post
It was not a 'tune' but a standart map re-install and tps adjustment via diagnostic tool. Apparently it worked well from Istanbul to Romania. I suspect a harness cable intermittant connection around the neighbourhood of throttle sensors...
I suspect you're right. With the other wires that have broken repeatedly, that is highly likely. It would also explain the variations in time it takes to reoccur. The wire may be making enough contact until it gets just the right bump or vibration and a momentary break in contact would be enough to set off the error code again.

Luke, are you able to trace the length of the harness wire from the TPS and check it for continuity?
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:34 PM   #801
Gage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soph9 View Post
I think now we all know why KTM bailed on the Long Way Round...no offense but it seems clear that KTM may have not had faith in their bike to make such a long trip...just like you guys....if the KTM is such the ADV bike what's up with all your issues? I am glad you eventually get them worked out but question...do you still have faith in the brand?
Im not a KTM fan boy. But have you read Miserygoat or Crashmasters ride reports? They are both riding KTM's and have been gone for quite awhile and covered lots of ground... and i have yet to see read any major problems!
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:08 AM   #802
GLantern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soph9 View Post
I think now we all know why KTM bailed on the Long Way Round...no offense but it seems clear that KTM may have not had faith in their bike to make such a long trip...just like you guys....if the KTM is such the ADV bike what's up with all your issues? I am glad you eventually get them worked out but question...do you still have faith in the brand?
I think the issue was the risk vs reward for KTM. They are a much smaller company then BMW and if their bikes did not make it would bring a lot of negative publicity. Of course if they did make it the positives would surely out weigh it. However a small company would be less willing to take the risk while a company like BMW could more then afford it. Just my 2 cents I still think KTMs are cool and fun bikes but for a long trip like that I would be on a BMW
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:19 AM   #803
Fishfund OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorzok View Post
so, the final word is that Dominic's tune ended up not working?? did i miss that someplace?

You didn't miss anything. I got a little ahead of my self here. We are a little behind on our story. It's time for more updates.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:27 AM   #804
Christian RA40XT
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Great RR... I like your way to react with problems!

I will be in Scandinavia from the end of May up to the end of June. I will also visit the NorthCape. Maybe we will see us
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:31 AM   #805
tphilpin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget_65 View Post
I suspect you're right. With the other wires that have broken repeatedly, that is highly likely. It would also explain the variations in time it takes to reoccur. The wire may be making enough contact until it gets just the right bump or vibration and a momentary break in contact would be enough to set off the error code again.

Luke, are you able to trace the length of the harness wire from the TPS and check it for continuity?
Luke,

I don't recall if you guys actually installed the borrowed throttle body on your bike and duplicated the error... I think you did so it is unlikely the problem is in your throttle body or sensor.

Have to concur with Gadget, consider a broken wire in the connection between the computer and the throttle position sensor OR the computer and ground. Assuming the code flashed is correct (and not result from other undefined anomalies), that would suggest the computer is getting a voltage value from the tps which is out of the expected range compared to the other data inputs (most likely a low or no value). Assuming all the other data sensors are working properly and within range, and that the computer is capable of flagging the other sensors should they fail, I would suspect a broken wire. The wire core has fatigued due to vibration but the strands are held in place (most of the time) with the more flexible plastic insulation, A momentary break sends the computer in fault mode, where it remains until reset.

In the case of your coil wires, there is no mechanical anchor of the wire harness itself onto or close to the coil electrical connection so the electrical connection serves both as an electrical and mechanical bond. Unfortunately the wiring harness between the coil connections and the last anchor point in the harness flexes and bounces causing the wire to fail, where the insulation has been removed, at the the spade connector. By tie wrapping the wiring harness to the coil or something nearby, and reducing the length of the unsupported wires leading into the coil spade connectors, your fatigue problem will go away. (Or you can reinforce the wire to spade connection with some shrink tubing to reinforce the mechanical joint if the wires aren't long enough to tie wrap elsewhere).

Back to your tps / computer intermittent connection issue. Providing you can connect a continuity tester in the line between the computer and the tps connector, you can flex and fold the wire trying to duplicate the break, which may not be easy to detect without good connectors on each end. The electrical disconnection is momentary so may not be easy to detect. Look carefully and inspect near the mechanical anchor points or along an unsupported length of harness. I don't think I would consider cutting and splicing in a new length of wire between the two connector ends unless I can verify the break as the break may very likely be at the connectors themselves (which is often where your household electrical cords break).

There may also be a break or bad connection in the computer ground which will alter the voltage reference point creating an out of bounds value in all or another sensor causing a fault, interpreted by the software as a tps anomaly. I don't know what other values are being compared to the tps data, but they are also suspect unless otherwise verified by the computer software. Loose battery ground and power supply connections to the computer may also be suspect.

Not a KTM owner, but have electronics background. Sorry if the information seems elementary but in my experience, troubleshooting often is.

Enjoying your RR, good luck.

Tony
Hartford, CT
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:20 AM   #806
SS in Vzla.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfund View Post


Looks like I'm winning, on both majors and minors, BUT and this is a HUGE BUT. My one major problem can not be understood or resolved, so I think that trumps everything and Nick does win.
I don't know much about the 690 (other than it is a very cool bike )... But it seems to me that Luke's bike has been highly modified (extra fuel tanks, different front end)... All this changes from OEM configuration sometimes need several tries until they are perfect.... Maybe Luke didn't have enough time to properly test the modifications before the trip? (since at the begging of the trip he was practically finishing the last touches on the bike as he rode it).

Maybe the problem with the error code is due to a shorted wire somewhere.. That might be because of an incorrect routing of the wiring due to the modified front end o extra tanks ???

Just sayin'....

There's plenty of KTMs out there doing long RTW trips... Just in 2011 on Advrider: Crashmaster, Misery Goat, Aurel (he is two-up, heavily loaded and the bike has gone over the 100.000 kms mark through Africa and South America), Chevalier Noir. I'm sure there are plenty of others who don't post here who have not had big problems. Nothing different to what other brands could have...

I think Luke has just been unlucky with this particular bike (there's always a rotten apple in the barrel)...

Ride on Luke & Nick
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:18 AM   #807
njoytheride
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ride on brothers

Thanks for many hours of entertainment. All I got to say is "ride on brothers, ride on". and <>< Njoytheride
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:33 PM   #808
digger2
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wimpy

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Wimpy burger? Maybe Wimpy from Popeye. "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." Great report.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:56 PM   #809
rickypanecatyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gage View Post
Im not a KTM fan boy. But have you read Miserygoat or Crashmasters ride reports? They are both riding KTM's and have been gone for quite awhile and covered lots of ground... and i have yet to see read any major problems!

Crashmaster and Misery goat are riding the LC8 KTM's - totally different engine that is much more reliable.
It's not about brand X vs brand Y as much as the category of bike. A Kawasaki KX450 has much more in common with a KTM SX450 than it does with a "fellow Kawasaki" KLR650.
Though the 690 was designed to be a lower maintenance/longer lasting bike than say the KTM EXC category its not; that's why the pro's on the 690's don't even use the fuel injection.
More importantly though Luke and Nick you guys have awesome attitudes that couldn't be seen without all the problems; don't we all have good attitudes when things are going good
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:50 PM   #810
Dogtown
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A vs. B

Ride On Nick and Luke!!

Heres my short two cents....

KTM couldn't afford to take the risk to allow a semi pro Charley Boreman and a semi novice Ewan McGregor to be the proof that they're bikes are or are not RTW worthy. As for KTM's reliability and performance, they're finishes in the Dakar and every other rally speaks for itself. No one comes close!!!

The new adventure bikes are Techno-Mechanical beasts and everything works off the success or failure of the mechanical part in front of it. EFI is still new to our bikes and needs to be ironed out, but the benefits of being at sea level for breakfast and 14,000 feet at lunch without having to make any adjustments is pretty spectacular! Think of all the sensors and electronics working to adjust fuel ratios, and the abuse of deep river crossings and dusty, bumpy roads and "most of the time" our beasts come through without a blip. The bikes are evolving and not many of us know how to fix or trouble shoot the highly technical solutions to them......including the manufactures.

Cheers!
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