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Old 02-04-2011, 06:27 PM   #16
dentvet OP
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not really Thinja

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Toney View Post
This build has been a great learning exercise for me. I have new found respect for those who post their builds and actually come out the other end with a bike. There are so many tiny little things that crop up to slow progress. I basically just copied Sanjoh's build and I still had my share of issues.

This has consumed a lot of time but has still been fun. I am about 90% done with the Thinja.

Since the last post I picked up some parts to finish the build. Fork seals so I could get the tubes back together and installed. I used left over parts from a KTM top clamp and some clip-ons that came on the ninja to construct a mounting bar for the stock headlight and gauge cluster. I think the Buell duals or Dominator lights look great but I had neither in the Parts Bin. Besides the OEM light doesn't look bad and would be easily replaced.



I found a Honda F4i shock like sanjohs and modded it to fit the Thinja. Drilled one end from 10 to 12mm and pressed (pounded) out and swapped bushings at the other end to allow the ninja bolts to work. 5mm of boss width had to be consumed on the grinder as well. I wonder if these shocks are rebuildable or revalvable.



My KTM cush hub wheel wasn't quite ready so I used a regular dirt wheel for now. I used my lathe to modify my custom sprocket spacer so it would accept a regular wheel bearing and seal. My sprocket should be pretty stable now.





I had done Sanjoh's brake caliper tenon mod but it turned out i didn't need it because my sprocket spacer moved everything towards the brake side. I may still need it when I switch back to a cush hub. The dimensions might be a little different between cush vs. non-cush.



I went with a 47 sprocket on the rear and learned that Honda XR200 sprocket interchanges here along with yamaha and KTM. I see that you can get damped front sprockets for a versys, I haven't looked to see if the Ninja front sprocket is damped or not. Would a damped sprocket make running a non-cush hub more do-able?

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...procket&page=3

I Went with Versys peg mounts only to find I still need a versys brake pedal, too. The peg position seems much better than the Ninja position. I am trying a 3 inch riser and the only fat bars that had enough real estate for the controls were these Flexx bars. I'm not sure I need these so i'll change them at some point. The cables and harnesses are at their maximum stretch with these risers.



I still can't ride anything yet but I was able to push it off the lift and swing a leg over it. Standing on the OEM ninja ergos was horrible and this set up is much better. The lock to lock turning radius is not good, the Ninja frame juts out and interferes with the fork tubes.

Here are the numbers so far.

Seat height 34"
Ground clearance 10.5"
Weight 394#







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Old 02-04-2011, 08:57 PM   #17
johnwesley
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how much rear wheel travel did you end up with ?
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:02 AM   #18
dentvet OP
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rear shock info from Sanjoh's thread:

"Thought I'd share some measurements for those that are looking for a rear shock. This is with an 18" ktm rear wheel and a Shinko 700, shock is off a honda cbr. Measurements are from centerline of eye or mounting bolt.

Condition Shock length MM Clearance to inner fender MM
both wheels in air shock in place 306 173
collpased no shock 243 0
max extension no shock 350 295
"

I think the stock ninja shock was 285mm eye to eye with 56 mm stroke length. I can't find the spring rate spec for this shock. 4.9 inches of travel. http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~shanetp/Specifications.html

The 2002 honda cbr600f4i shock is 305mm long with a 60mm stroke. 14.2 kg/mm spring rate

anyways, i measured my tire to fender dimension at 150mm or 6 inches, my knobbies are kind of tall. I could probably go a bit longer on the shock, right now my muffler is clearing and the swingarm angle isn't too bad.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:03 AM   #19
jdrocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post

Would a damped sprocket make running a non-cush hub more do-able?

I Went with Versys peg mounts only to find I still need a versys brake pedal, too.

The cables and harnesses are at their maximum stretch with these risers.


you really jumped ahead on the build.

the Versys and 650R both use the OEM damped sprocket. smoother running, but you still need the cush drive.

you're clever enough to modify the 650R lever if you don't want to buy a new one.

the harness can be loosed up under the tank to get a little more length on both sides. get the Versys clutch and throttle cables, they're longer, and have the same ends. swap right in.

did you modify the LSL clamps for the larger fork tubes? what kind of diameter can you get out of them?

looks real good. another rat for the pack.
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Old 02-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #20
johnwesley
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
rear shock info from Sanjoh's thread:

"Thought I'd share some measurements for those that are looking for a rear shock. This is with an 18" ktm rear wheel and a Shinko 700, shock is off a honda cbr. Measurements are from centerline of eye or mounting bolt.

Condition Shock length MM Clearance to inner fender MM
both wheels in air shock in place 306 173
collpased no shock 243 0
max extension no shock 350 295
"

I think the stock ninja shock was 285mm eye to eye with 56 mm stroke length. I can't find the spring rate spec for this shock. 4.9 inches of travel. http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~shanetp/Specifications.html

The 2002 honda cbr600f4i shock is 305mm long with a 60mm stroke. 14.2 kg/mm spring rate

anyways, i measured my tire to fender dimension at 150mm or 6 inches, my knobbies are kind of tall. I could probably go a bit longer on the shock, right now my muffler is clearing and the swingarm angle isn't too bad.
so your looking at 5.26" of travel with the honda shock. One would need 92.5mm stroke to get 8" of travel, with a ruffly 365mm total shock length so if you could get a additional 10mm drop then it would fit. Hhmmm just thinking out loud. So you could in theory run a 9" up front and 8" in back while keeping a balanced bike. That is really good specs for the type of bike build most are doing. Interesting
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:41 AM   #21
dentvet OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
you really jumped ahead on the build.

the Versys and 650R both use the OEM damped sprocket. smoother running, but you still need the cush drive.

you're clever enough to modify the 650R lever if you don't want to buy a new one.

the harness can be loosed up under the tank to get a little more length on both sides. get the Versys clutch and throttle cables, they're longer, and have the same ends. swap right in.

did you modify the LSL clamps for the larger fork tubes? what kind of diameter can you get out of them?

looks real good. another rat for the pack.
thanks! rat pack approved

I cut the tube holders off the LSL clip ons and they bolt into the KTM top triple clamp that I chopped in half. Its pretty crude but it also gave me some great mounting points for stuff like the ignition switch.

The old clip on bars run forward to to a crossbar made from mundane household 3/4 inch copper copper plumbing tubing. (7/8 inch handle bar is the same OD as 3/4 inch tubing). The Headlight and gauge clusters were then simply clamped to the round tubing so they can be rotated/ aimed etc. The tubing also gives the opportunity to mount a RAM or anything else that clamps onto a normal 7/8 inch bar.

I must admit its a cobby solution but it was stuff from the Parts Bin and if it turns out to not be very crashable, it will certainly be easily replaceable. Stuff like this doesn't cost anything but the time spent staring at leftover stuff devising ways to recycle it back onto the bike.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:46 AM   #22
dentvet OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwesley View Post
so your looking at 5.26" of travel with the honda shock. One would need 92.5mm stroke to get 8" of travel, with a ruffly 365mm total shock length so if you could get a additional 10mm drop then it would fit. Hhmmm just thinking out loud. So you could in theory run a 9" up front and 8" in back while keeping a balanced bike. That is really good specs for the type of bike build most are doing. Interesting
at some point somebody will try a swingarm mod to get more rear wheel travel. The swingarm doesnt bolt onto the engine so it might be easy to find one that fits into the mounts. then one would have to modify or replace the subframe to make a upper shock mount , relocate battery box etc.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
I see that you can get damped front sprockets for a versys, I haven't looked to see if the Ninja front sprocket is damped or not. Would a damped sprocket make running a non-cush hub more do-able?
The damped front sprocket has nothing to do with absorbing driveline shock like a cush hub, it is strictly for noise reduction.

If you are going to run the bike on the street, especially on street rubber, I would definitely not use a non-cush hub.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:44 AM   #24
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The lock to lock steering is a challenge. Be ready to hit the throttle if you are doing a slow tight turn or enter the turn much faster, ala sportbike style, so the centrifugal force will help you keep it upright.

Nice progress on your build.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:08 AM   #25
johnwesley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
at some point somebody will try a swingarm mod to get more rear wheel travel. The swingarm doesnt bolt onto the engine so it might be easy to find one that fits into the mounts. then one would have to modify or replace the subframe to make a upper shock mount , relocate battery box etc.
that true you could lengthen the swingarm thus changing the stroke to travel ratio and end up with a nice travel spec
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet View Post
at some point somebody will try a swingarm mod to get more rear wheel travel. The swingarm doesnt bolt onto the engine so it might be easy to find one that fits into the mounts. then one would have to modify or replace the subframe to make a upper shock mount , relocate battery box etc.
You rang???

Thanks to all your encouragement I am picking up an 08 650r on Friday. I plan many of the same mods you and Sanjoh have done, but plan to go a few steps further in the suspension dept.

I may make up a swingarm or try and retrofit an MX style. The problem I see is retaining the pivot tube and then grafting on a different type arm. All this is theory as I don't even have the bike yet. I do have a hydraulic tubing bender and a ton of DOM tubing on the way so I may try and hack the original up and then modify it for a linkage type suspension.

Front will most likely be from a late 2000's 450 motocrosser.

The subframe will be replaced by a lighter, thinner custom version.

Not to Hijack but all these threads really help get the juices flowing for what has to be the cheapest build I have ever done. My 650r was $1000 and is an 08 with low miles. No title though...

Great job paving the way!!
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:10 AM   #27
LukasM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
You rang???

Thanks to all your encouragement I am picking up an 08 650r on Friday. I plan many of the same mods you and Sanjoh have done, but plan to go a few steps further in the suspension dept.

I may make up a swingarm or try and retrofit an MX style. The problem I see is retaining the pivot tube and then grafting on a different type arm. All this is theory as I don't even have the bike yet. I do have a hydraulic tubing bender and a ton of DOM tubing on the way so I may try and hack the original up and then modify it for a linkage type suspension.

Front will most likely be from a late 2000's 450 motocrosser.

The subframe will be replaced by a lighter, thinner custom version.

Not to Hijack but all these threads really help get the juices flowing for what has to be the cheapest build I have ever done. My 650r was $1000 and is an 08 with low miles. No title though...

Great job paving the way!!


That sounds fantastic and would address the big issue that kept me from starting one of these builds, too. With a custom rear end you could set up the geometry how you want it. Then if you wanted you could increase ground clearance and lower seat height with the custom subframe.

Go for it!
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post


That sounds fantastic and would address the big issue that kept me from starting one of these builds, too. With a custom rear end you could set up the geometry how you want it. Then if you wanted you could increase ground clearance and lower seat height with the custom subframe.

Go for it!
I'd really like to use an aluminum rear swingarm from something like a YZ, the problem I see is the pivot and how I would engineer that. I do have a TIG welder so that isn't a problem. Other great part of that is that the donor gives the brakes, axle etc. I do worry about alignment but I'm sure I can work through those details.

Opens up a world of possibilities for rear suspension to match the front.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:28 PM   #29
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I'll Be starting my own thread shortly...

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:56 PM   #30
dentvet OP
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right on, get to the hybridization!
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