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Old 01-12-2005, 03:02 PM   #1
meat popsicle OP
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dB Testing Thread

Hey y'all,

dB testing is beginning. A big THANKS to dagwood for sending his very nice Quest Model 208 Sound Level Meter! We will be testing KTM 640 Adventures (LC4s) but dagwood would like to see more than just this one bike and the variety of pipes we have. I know of a few pipes that will be tested, Supertrapp IDS2 w/ race core (me), Supertrapp IDS2 w/ quiet core (PASSMORE), Akrapovics Ti (boejangles), and there could be others at LC4 Tech Daze at vrago's this weekend (stock?!?).

A little bit of business to tend to first. The specs for testing are SAE J1169 Measurement of Light Vehicle Exhaust Sound Level under Stationary Conditions. This is THE standard, here and in Australia to name two places. Here is what I have on that test:

Generally, the test looks for maximum dB (sound pressure) with the engine held steady at 75% peak HP.

Here is the motorcycle specific setup, the Aussies throw in moving test specs as well, but their test is based on the ASE J1169:


EDIT: So first question is: What's the RPMs at 75% of peak HP for a standard LC4? Later in the thread, vrago says 5250 but that might be for his FCR/SXC piped bike. If you know your customized setup's HP curve, fine, otherwise lets use the stock LC4's curve. When somebody gets a chance please add this info somewhere. Thanks.

Here is a exapmle dB testing sheet so that you can mimic the testing proceedures. Based upon this it looks like you take several readings (4?) and then average the highest two. Does anyone have the SAE J1169 test specs to check? They cost about $75 bucks from commercial outfits


MORE BELOW
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 01-15-2005 at 08:29 AM Reason: fixing info, culling
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:04 PM   #2
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SAE J1287 from ChrisC

ChrisC's link to a pdf of the SAE specs comes later. The pic above is the same stationary spec as the J1287 spec.

Just a note here; I have seen a few different "interpretations" of the other test specs J1169, likely because its contentious and people want it to be what they want it to be...

One source (put in above) says the test speed should be the RPMs at 75% of Peak HP. Another says:

"Noise levels will be checked from a twenty-inch distance from the exhaust pipe at half the vehicle's rated RPM or as detailed in the automotive specs SAE J1169, March 92 or SAE J1287, June 86."

That is from an OHV site and is definately less conservative. It would be nice to know as this is the spec that the state uses in their new testing program. Anyone have it? I don't wanna spend $60 bucks to get that info from SAE.
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meat popsicle screwed with this post 01-15-2005 at 08:56 AM Reason: Putting in correct test info
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:05 PM   #3
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Quest dB explaination

SOUND FUNDAMENTALS
Sound is defined as any rapid pressure variation in air (or
other medium) that the human ear can detect. Because the ear
can detect such a wide range of loudness from the softest of
whispers to the din of jet engines, the decibel was adopted to
express this range of sound levels. The softest sound a person
can hear β€” the threshold of hearing β€”is, by definition, 0
decibels (0 dB).

The decibel is a logarithmic term such that sound pressure
doubles every 6 dB. In terms of sound intensity or energy,
sound doubles every 3 dB. Most industrial noise levels are
thousands of times greater than the 0 dB level and will often
be somewhere between 80 and 90 dB or louder. Nearby jet
engines may produce sound levels up to 130 dB.
The number of pressure variations per second is called the
frequency of sound and is measured in cycles per second or
Hertz (Hz). The human ear canhear very low frequencies down to about 20 Hz and can hear

high frequencies to a maximum of 20,000 Hz. (The highest
key on a piano is just over 4,000 Hz.) The 208 and 208L Sound Level Meters use a qualitymicrophone that detects sound in a similar manner to the
human ear. The detected signal from the microphone is then "
A "-weighted to give a response again similar to the way the
ear responds. The noise is detected and averaged with a
"SLOW" time constant to produce a display slow enough to
be conveniently read.

The measured sound depends not only on the loudness of the
sound source but also on the distance from the source, the
sound path, other sound sources, and the presence or absence
of reflecting surfaces. The entire acoustic environment should
be considered for the most accurate readings.

Both meters are designed to be hand-held. When taking a
measurement, hold the meter away from the body and other
large surfaces and point it toward the sound source and
upward at an angle of approximately 70Β° to the direction of
sound.
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Old 01-12-2005, 03:44 PM   #4
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The full description of the measured quanity is

dBArel0

You have covered

dB though I think you fail to mention that it is a ratio - like %

A

but not the rel 0 - which means relative to 0 - the threshold of human hearing.

Some measurements are made rel20 - untrasonics in particular.

Think you will find the meter has a mounting for a camera tropod mount - on the base at the rear. I known the one I used does.

--- OZ regulatons.... well some fool or two have given us 'ere in NSW as set of stationary tests ... and a sticker that we have to have on the bike.
Basiclly - 0.5 m 45 degrees 0.2m height min and a max of 100dBArel0 for bikes before 1984, 94 for other bikes. And it is measured at 50% of the maximum horsepower speed of the engine. With the meter paralell to the ground. Link to test methos - stationary includes alarms, gresscutters, Mobile garbage compactors, chain saws etc.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:09 PM   #5
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I'll be testing the KTM's sxc pipe.

I have a tripod to use this weekend.

If I get my shop cleaned up I'll print up a few record sheets.
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:33 PM   #6
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You should test in an open area - not inside like I did. If you test inside your readings will be higher. How much higher depends on the conditions An open grassed area should give you the lowest readings.

Wot I tried to do was use the standard configuration of K11 as a reference .. unfortunatly something is loose on the exhaust somewheres and rattles thus upping the noise. I've got to find that - fix it and retest. It will be a while before that gets done. I've got a roof that needs sweeping down before some bored kid on school holis starts playing with matches.
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Old 01-12-2005, 06:57 PM   #7
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OZ vs US

Meat,

Why not use the SAE J1287 test instead of the Aussie one?

SAE J1287 is the defacto standard for motorcycle dB testing in the US....

CC
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Old 01-12-2005, 07:10 PM   #8
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the people that I have talked to that have been tested said the Forrest service Ranger has two setups and a book. The DB meter and a little pouch that he sets on the tank to measure RPM . the book tells the redline of a given bike and they test at half the redline RPM. IE if its a 8000 redline then they test at 4000 RpM
easy...if you have a tach but how many thumpers have a tach? so my take on it is when they say max power output they realy mean RPM related power output.
so it's gonna be a guestamit no matter how you do as the DB meter's vary as do the conditions tested.
the FS Rangers have spendy units with a sponge like foam cover like a high end microphone over the head.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagwood
The DB meter and a little pouch that he sets on the tank to measure RPM . the book tells the redline of a given bike and they test at half the redline RPM.
That thing he sets on the tank will probably have a lead that clips over the spark plug lead - most bikes still have these. That does the rpm measurement for them.
The epa test here too is half the rpm of max power (not the red line - that would be a bit higher). You certain the book is not rpm of max power?
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
That thing he sets on the tank will probably have a lead that clips over the spark plug lead - most bikes still have these. That does the rpm measurement for them.
The epa test here too is half the rpm of max power (not the red line - that would be a bit higher). You certain the book is not rpm of max power?
No I'm not sure. just second hand info. your probably right about the leed wire.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
The full description of the measured quanity is

dBArel0

You have covered

dB though I think you fail to mention that it is a ratio - like %

A

but not the rel 0 - which means relative to 0 - the threshold of human hearing.

Some measurements are made rel20 - untrasonics in particular.

Think you will find the meter has a mounting for a camera tropod mount - on the base at the rear. I known the one I used does.

--- OZ regulatons.... well some fool or two have given us 'ere in NSW as set of stationary tests ... and a sticker that we have to have on the bike.
Basiclly - 0.5 m 45 degrees 0.2m height min and a max of 100dBArel0 for bikes before 1984, 94 for other bikes. And it is measured at 50% of the maximum horsepower speed of the engine. With the meter paralell to the ground. Link to test methos - stationary includes alarms, gresscutters, Mobile garbage compactors, chain saws etc.
Thanks Frank,
My post directly above yours goes into dB in detail. Quote:

"The decibel is a logarithmic term such that sound pressure
doubles every 6 dB. In terms of sound intensity or energy,
sound doubles every 3 dB. Most industrial noise levels are
thousands of times greater than the 0 dB level and will often
be somewhere between 80 and 90 dB or louder. Nearby jet
engines may produce sound levels up to 130 dB.
The number of pressure variations per second is called the
frequency of sound and is measured in cycles per second or
Hertz (Hz). The human ear canhear very low frequencies down to about 20 Hz and can hear high frequencies to a maximum of 20,000 Hz. "

The post above that is the Aussie regulations for testing motorcycles.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Warner
You should test in an open area - not inside like I did. If you test inside your readings will be higher. How much higher depends on the conditions An open grassed area should give you the lowest readings.

Wot I tried to do was use the standard configuration of K11 as a reference .. unfortunatly something is loose on the exhaust somewheres and rattles thus upping the noise. I've got to find that - fix it and retest. It will be a while before that gets done. I've got a roof that needs sweeping down before some bored kid on school holis starts playing with matches.
According to SAE J1169 the test must be performed on hardscape (concrete etc) in order to be valid (mimics a roadway), must be performed outdoors, and with no object (save the meter and operator) within 3 meters of any side of the bike. Did y'all read the posts above?
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Meat,

Why not use the SAE J1287 test instead of the Aussie one?

SAE J1287 is the defacto standard for motorcycle dB testing in the US....

CC
Never heard of it Chris; SAE J1169 Measurement of Light Vehicle Exhaust Sound Level under Stationary Conditions is the only one I have seen cited as the test. Maybe that is a Colorado thing? In Cali, J1169 is the standard. Damn States Rights crap Care to enlighten us?
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagwood
the people that I have talked to that have been tested said the Forrest service Ranger has two setups and a book. The DB meter and a little pouch that he sets on the tank to measure RPM . the book tells the redline of a given bike and they test at half the redline RPM. IE if its a 8000 redline then they test at 4000 RpM
easy...if you have a tach but how many thumpers have a tach? so my take on it is when they say max power output they realy mean RPM related power output.
so it's gonna be a guestamit no matter how you do as the DB meter's vary as do the conditions tested.
the FS Rangers have spendy units with a sponge like foam cover like a high end microphone over the head.
The SAE J1169 specifies the revs to be held steady at 75% of peak horsepower. Since that is a difficult standard to meet in the field with modified bikes and poorly tuned bikes the FS must have made their own standardized test. I would argue that the FS test might be less stringent than the SAE J1169 standard; I am guessing that 4000rpm is a little low for 75% of peak HP. Anybody have the stock HP curves for the KTM 640 Adv?!?
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Old 01-13-2005, 09:15 AM   #15
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Sae J1287

Meat,

SAE J1287 is a motorcycle specific, static sound test. It is accomplished at 20" from the pipe @ 45 degrees, engine at 50% of maximum rpm in neutral. Check the paper itself:

SAE J1287

Where's the Meatlette?
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