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Old 05-14-2012, 04:29 AM   #1621
KradmelderSA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuwei View Post
Serious question for cruiser fans, especially HD riders. What is it with the low, low, looooooow seat height thing? I just don't get it. It is getting to the point that the rider will need Draggin' jeans so his butt can slide along the road while he drives. HD used to make Sporties that were really standards, with straight seats, decent ground clearance, decent lean angles, etc. I know some of the other models offer more of a standard riding position, but why not at least one of the Sporties? I would think that from a practical standpoint HD might be losing some of those new riders when they round their first corner and get scared because they're grinding stuff. That right there completely eliminates an HD from my radar screen, not because I'm some sort of freakin' fast rider, but because I ride a lot of backroads with hairpin turns, bumps, even some dirt stretches where I might need a little bit of ground clearance, etc., that even if you take them very slow you need to lean pretty far over. Even in urban and highway driving you need decent ground clearance. I unfortunately arrived early at the scene of an accident where a left turn lane on a major 4-lane road had some big bumps in the asphalt where all the 18-wheelers had been making the turn--sort of like moguls on a ski slope. The Goldwing with passenger had grounded out going over the bumps and lost it in the turn. Looked like folks might have been hurt too. Point being, reasonable seat height, reasonable ground clearance, reasonable cornering angle are important design attributes that seriously impact not only the driving experience but safety too.
With so many of their riders sporting huge beer guts, swinging your leg over a tall bike like KTM just isnt possible. So they make their bikes low. Also beer guts get in the way of a natural sitting riding posture, or leaned over like on a super bike.

Dont need much corrnering angle when you are riding on parade on main streets or highways to the next pub, or on a breakfast run. Hairpins, dirt, potholes, bumps are not suitable for formation riding on low bikes unless you want to see a pile of bent chrome.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:22 AM   #1622
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Yep, Harleys' bread and butter is the big, fat, slow cruiser. It's about looks, sound and life style... for most. They're marketing to a group of people that don't want to do 190 mph down the freeway. Most of their customers have no desire to ride a bike 2000 miles through scorching desert sand and rocks. They want a huge dealer network. Most really do like the fantasy that they're riding a vintage machine from the '40s or '60s (I own a Drifter). But, and this is a big but, damn near every long time rider I know that owns or has owned a Harley likes the XR1200X but hates the looks. When I ask if they'd consider one if HD had a bolt on kit to make it look like an XLCR http://bikez.com/motorcycles/harley-...racer_1978.php a VR1000 http://thekneeslider.com/images/vr1000.jpg or an XR750 http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/Pho...visonXR750.jpg everyone of them says yes.

From two salesmen who worked for 3 dealerships, the ONLY reason the XR1200/X didn't sell was was the looks. People liked the handling, power, would even tolerate the high seat height (by HD standards), but it just didn't LOOK like a Harley. I personally think it's fugly, and since one of my current bikes is an '84 Goldwing Aspencade that's saying something.

One thing that really chaps my ass, HD had the opportunity to finally bring out a liquid cooled bike that would sell, an XR1125. Put that engine in a sportster style, with factory bolt on body kits (XLCR,VR1000,XR750) and they'd go flying out the door. Not everybody has the technical know how and cash to drop on a Storz kit, but let a dealership do it and retain the factory warranty...
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:49 AM   #1623
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Originally Posted by RBnite View Post
Largest MC company in the world must know what it is doing.
Yes. Honda knows what it's doing.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:49 AM   #1624
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Yes. Honda knows what it's doing.
ZING!
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:36 PM   #1625
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Originally Posted by KradmelderSA View Post
If Im looking for decent bike, that is comfortable all day, I can ride off road, commute, lots of power and good power to weight ratio etc. I wouldnt look at a harley. If I wanted to featureas an extra in pirates of the caribbean, or mad max, or liked wearing leather vests like the Village People, I would consider a harley.

But Harley isnt the only one marketing image. BMW is also trying to market a lifestyle with their GS, but not at the expense of substance. BMW is also selling a 'look' and twat suit, just like harley does, and putting it on the price tag. However, the GS also has other traits that market the bike if you ignore image and can afford the price tag. And the BMW suits are very good quality ATGATT, ans some dont have the logo on.
Funny, the only 2 bikes that have ever had to go home on trailers during a ride I was on were an old Yamaha Fazer with almost 100k (blew out the countershaft bearing, oil everywhere) and a GS with only 40,000 miles (FD failure, imagine that).

The KTM Adventure has one of the most asinine oil changes in motorcycling--no thanks. That's one of the things I bitterly hate about my Concours and the KTM's worse. Ease-of-service is a pretty big deal to me, and a sign of a well-designed product.

Tell me--are some of the KTM dealers still not servicing the big twins? When H-D came out with the V-Rod, they didn't give their dealers a choice. Any KTM dealer that does not work on the twins should lose their franchise.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:54 PM   #1626
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Yes. Honda knows what it's doing.
I'm not so sure about that.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #1627
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I'm not so sure about that.
Gee, really?
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:08 PM   #1628
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Originally Posted by AZbiker View Post
Tell me--are some of the KTM dealers still not servicing the big twins? When H-D came out with the V-Rod, they didn't give their dealers a choice. Any KTM dealer that does not work on the twins should lose their franchise.
Yikes! I certainly wouldn't want my bike at a dealer who is working on it because they HAVE TO.

Then again, I ride a KLR. No dealer service needed.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #1629
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Originally Posted by AZbiker View Post
The KTM Adventure has one of the most asinine oil changes in motorcycling--no thanks. That's one of the things I bitterly hate about my Concours and the KTM's worse. Ease-of-service is a pretty big deal to me, and a sign of a well-designed product.

.

I could never ride a KTM, I'm not gonna ride a bike where you have to accessorize your clothes the same color as the bike.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:24 PM   #1630
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Originally Posted by p0diabl0 View Post
As a relatively young gentleman of 26 I would require this to buy a Harley (Sportster):
Water cooled.
6 speed
Under 600 lbs, preferably under 500.
Clearance like an XR, at the very least.
Wheels that can accept decent rubber.

.

Fuck six speeds and water cooled.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:46 PM   #1631
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Fuck six speeds and water cooled.
Okay okay, 5 speeds would probably be fine on a 1200. But SoCal gets hot, I need liquid under my nuts
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:05 PM   #1632
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Originally Posted by AZbiker View Post

Tell me--are some of the KTM dealers still not servicing the big twins? When H-D came out with the V-Rod, they didn't give their dealers a choice. Any KTM dealer that does not work on the twins should lose their franchise.

I was talking to a local dealer about this.

They stopped carrying the street lines when KTM required a 20 bike buy in for the 2010. TWENTY, considering he had a pair of 2008 Super Dukes still in 2011 he would have been full on retarded to make that sort of investment. His shop may move 20 KTM dirt bikes, but the street bikes don't sell that way.

Why in god's name would the owner invest something like 180,000 in bikes he KNOWS aren't going to move?

Fortunately they do have techs that can work on the twins, so thats cool I guess.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:57 PM   #1633
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Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
I was talking to a local dealer about this.

They stopped carrying the street lines when KTM required a 20 bike buy in for the 2010. TWENTY, considering he had a pair of 2008 Super Dukes still in 2011 he would have been full on retarded to make that sort of investment. His shop may move 20 KTM dirt bikes, but the street bikes don't sell that way.

Why in god's name would the owner invest something like 180,000 in bikes he KNOWS aren't going to move?

Fortunately they do have techs that can work on the twins, so thats cool I guess.
So I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Totally unacceptable to me though. And a total beta move on KTM's part not to enforce franchise standards.

All theoretical since I can't afford one anyway.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:56 PM   #1634
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So I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing. Totally unacceptable to me though. And a total beta move on KTM's part not to enforce franchise standards.

All theoretical since I can't afford one anyway.

The crucial difference, KTM isn't Harley, they CAN'T go around and enforce single line boutique style dealers here, because no one would carry them. If their bikes were up to the reliability and rideability of Triumph or Honda ...they MAY be able to phase out the little multi-line shops...

....but they aren't close

The only reason I'm not riding a Super Duke R is that I refused to pay 16 large for a bike that had a hunting problem under 30mph.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:56 AM   #1635
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Okay okay, 5 speeds would probably be fine on a 1200. But SoCal gets hot, I need liquid under my nuts
So ride to the beach.
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