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Old 01-31-2011, 02:39 PM   #151
Tuna Helper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in IL View Post
I think Harley is in a self made trap. When your selling a "lifestyle" it's hard to change. I think Buells success "confused" traditional Harley riders because the bikes did not fit the Harley ideal of what a "real" motorcycle is.

When you mentioned Buell around him, it made my die hard Harley rider friend sneer and say something like, "Don't know why they piss around with that crap." .

I think that sums up the average Harley buyers attitude about anything new or different. Give me more or less chrome and different paint but don't go changing to try an please me! The Vrod motor should have evolved and found it's way into several different models by now but instead they still don't sell that many. Harley has done well at selling more and more of the same old thing. Evolution not revolution!
That's a good point. I have met a few die-hard HD fans who don't consider the V-Rod to be a "real" Harley.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:57 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by RC51950ADVAlpina'tac View Post
The IRS actually gives you more money in write-offs/expenses for closing it. The idiots cut off their nose to remove a recession fly. Oh well, don't lose sleep.
please explain more, as this doesn't make any sense to me.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:27 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
What nice abilities does it have on the highway? I don't see a combination of slow and ill-handling to be an advantage in any scenario.

If you have ridden one, you'd know. Yes, you can shit talk Harleys all you want, but not on long interstate trips. The slower handling and heavy weight makes the bike very smooth and stable as a semi truck. On a Harley, every little gust of wind doesn't effect you one bit. Even come a big gust of wind, you will either not feel it or harley notice. Basically the weight helps keep the bike very comfortable with winds and such, and the handling keeps it stable and relaxed.

The engine and transmission were designed for the highway as well. They have a nice, torquey engine with a wide torque curve, and espically good low end torque. This is matched to a nice top gear. 5th or 6th is usually either a 1:1 or an overdrive ratio, allowing nice low cruise RPMs. The engine has so much torque at low RPMs you can often leave it in top gear up decent hills on the highway.


If stupidly flying down the highway at well over 115 MPH is your thing, well go right on ahead and do it. But I prefer a nice, relaxed cruise at 80 MPH in good comfort. Sports bikes are very uncomfortable as well, but I admit I've ridden a few and they are fun, well at least for the first 50 miles. I LOVE all forms of motorcycles, be it scooters, touring models, Dual Sports, Adventure, anything with 2 wheels and a motor!

But why else would they call them a "cruiser"? Are they "Race bike"? "Fast bike?" Don't think so.



I am hearing some good ideas here. Sounds like this educated idiot is acting up! And yes, Harley will NEVER go out of business! They may very well suffer at times, as they have many times in the past, but they will NEVER go out of business.

And I CAN see what you mean with the Buells and sports bikes. The Harley only guys don't want anything to do with them and such.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:58 AM   #154
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In every category of motorcycling there is some other brand that exceeds the HD in performance. While I’ve spent some time defending HDs management game in this thread, I believe that I could easily find at least five highway bikes that improve on what HD does on the interstate. Every rider I have known with serious highway time has ended up with something other than a HD in their stable for that work, generally Hondas or BMWs. Those Harley fans ended up keeping their HDs for poker runs and Memorial Day parades. (Likewise, everyone I’ve ever know who has owned a Buell ended up trading it for a Suzuki.)

Now here is where someone jumps in and recounts how they rode their dresser from Key West to Point Barrow in 1983 with nothing more than a sleeping bag, seven cases of beer and a black doo rag. I’m not saying it can’t be done, just that there is better gear for the job. That is the reason I don’t ride HD, even after a youth with plenty of them around.

Will HD survive? That’s still up in the air. They have been hard to kill in the past, but lots of better marks have been strangled by poor management and strong competition. Who knows, maybe the Chinese will buy all of the shares that Fidelity owns and take the business over. Or maybe Piaggio will do it, make HD a division of Aprilia and start making the Baja 100 again. Now that would be cool. If anything has been established in this thread is that their current models are probably not best classed as sport bikes, dirt bikes or adventure bikes.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:19 AM   #155
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I am not sure wtf they are doing but they almost got the king of the highway right...
If you can find me a non HD touring motorcycle that is comfortable, quiet, large, decent handling, tbw, cruise control, floorboards, intercom/stereo, efi, abs!, 6 gal gas tank and mpg better than 42-50 mpg I will buy it.

Guess what??? Currently there is no replacement for my 2009 ultra classic [19550 miles and counting]other than a new 2011 UC. If there was it would be parked in my garage.

Now granted to properly set up an UC you need to add a few farkles such as the Cee Bailey windshield, the lower fork baffle, a set of hella horns and the Valentine 1 radar detector.

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Old 02-01-2011, 07:29 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btcn View Post
If you have ridden one, you'd know. Yes, you can shit talk Harleys all you want, but not on long interstate trips. The slower handling and heavy weight makes the bike very smooth and stable as a semi truck. On a Harley, every little gust of wind doesn't effect you one bit. Even come a big gust of wind, you will either not feel it or harley notice. Basically the weight helps keep the bike very comfortable with winds and such, and the handling keeps it stable and relaxed.

The engine and transmission were designed for the highway as well. They have a nice, torquey engine with a wide torque curve, and espically good low end torque. This is matched to a nice top gear. 5th or 6th is usually either a 1:1 or an overdrive ratio, allowing nice low cruise RPMs. The engine has so much torque at low RPMs you can often leave it in top gear up decent hills on the highway.
Sorry, I've ridden them. You're using a lot of words to say "heavy, slow, and poor-handling." Then you're trying to tell us those are qualities instead of flaws. It's silly.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:10 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Sorry, I've ridden them. You're using a lot of words to say "heavy, slow, and poor-handling." Then you're trying to tell us those are qualities instead of flaws. It's silly.
I spend a lot of highway time in heavy traffic with busses and semis or with crosswinds on an SV650 and it often feels like I'm riding a piece of tissue paper, holding on for dear life and praying for less wind gusts. Something heavier and slower would be quite welcome.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:24 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Sorry, I've ridden them. You're using a lot of words to say "heavy, slow, and poor-handling." Then you're trying to tell us those are qualities instead of flaws. It's silly.
Always going to be haters I guess.

Last summer when I came back to the usa to visit family, i took my Harley on a two week tour of around 5000 miles I went through 14 states and had three rest days. In all of that time the only other people out touring were on other HD bikes. All those BMW rides, hondas, whatnot were on day trips. The only gnarly adventure dudes with adv stickers were trailering their bikes...they don't get the salute for that shit, not from this guy. A group of BMW riders on the brc were shocked I had come from Wisconsin in two riding days. Facts are that in the hands of serious tourers, the HD is a strong candidate.

While I respect your opinion and recognize that no bike is all things to all people, the fact is that people who tour, really tour, ride HD overwhelmingly in the usa. Even in germany and parts of Europe, the homeland of the BMW touring bike, HD has a huge market.

Want sport? Not going to get it from a Harley. Want adventure touring? Ditto, that's why I own a BMW Dakar. Want to tour on long days? HD does the job, my friend.

Your mileage may vary, obviously.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:38 AM   #159
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Wild Hogs

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandThumper View Post
Always going to be haters I guess.

Last summer when I came back to the usa to visit family, i took my Harley on a two week tour of around 5000 miles I went through 14 states and had three rest days. In all of that time the only other people out touring were on other HD bikes. All those BMW rides, hondas, whatnot were on day trips. The only gnarly adventure dudes with adv stickers were trailering their bikes...they don't get the salute for that shit, not from this guy. A group of BMW riders on the brc were shocked I had come from Wisconsin in two riding days. Facts are that in the hands of serious tourers, the HD is a strong candidate.

While I respect your opinion and recognize that no bike is all things to all people, the fact is that people who tour, really tour, ride HD overwhelmingly in the usa. Even in germany and parts of Europe, the homeland of the BMW touring bike, HD has a huge market.

Want sport? Not going to get it from a Harley. Want adventure touring? Ditto, that's why I own a BMW Dakar. Want to tour on long days? HD does the job, my friend.

Your mileage may vary, obviously.
Thumper,i agree with you.it takes $$$$ to tour.the movie wild hogs has sold afew harleys and made touring with you friends a middle age event. alot of pudgy middle aged bikers out of for afew beers and adventure makes Harley dealerships all over the USA happy.they couldnt stay in business if it wasnt for older men and women wanting to turn the clock back for a week or two.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:46 AM   #160
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Hey Thumper, I'm your huckleberry. I'm a beemer guy who likes harleys, but I am a "day rider" as well- several hundred mile days, if you will. Typically go to Florida, 1800 miles in two days. Come on down & I will do some serious rides with you. Unfortunately, most harley's in my part of the country go from bar to bar. Just goes to show it is the rider, not the bike brand!
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:15 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by ADVNTR View Post
If you can find me a non HD touring motorcycle that is comfortable, quiet, large, decent handling, tbw, cruise control, floorboards, intercom/stereo, efi, abs!, 6 gal gas tank and mpg better than 42-50 mpg I will buy it.
K1600 GTL

I guess that "decent handling" will simply have to remain a relative term.

The K 1600 GTL is on the other end of the scale from the UC in the go stop and turn categories.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:39 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
K1600 GTL

I guess that "decent handling" will simply have to remain a relative term.

The K 1600 GTL is on the other end of the scale from the UC in the go stop and turn categories.
Beautiful bike, but my arthritic knees won't let me ride all day in that position. I like the floorboards on my bagger. They let me move my legs around and take some of the strain off.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:43 AM   #163
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:20 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Disco Stu View Post
please explain more, as this doesn't make any sense to me.

For example: Buell ##may## have been clearing $50 Million USD of net profit for H-D in a calendar year.

However, when corporations shutter one subsidiary of their business (Buell) the IRS has these loopholes called "charges" and "expenses" which are incurred in said closing(s). So, even though Buell was hypothetically making a net profit of $50 Million USD per year, H-D was able to write off incurred "expenses" of say $300 Million, against the profits of the H-D parent Corp.. And actually, if done correctly, those $300 Million in expenses can be written off in annual chunks: a $60 Million expense write off in each of the next 5 years, for instance.

DO you get it?
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:55 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by tcourdin View Post
What kind of bikes do we need in America right now? Even if they did make an entry level 250cc it would be impossible for them to keep the price as low as the overseas stuff that is flooding the market.
Late to the party, but:

Sensible commuter bikes, not megabuck status-barges.

Where is the new ford focus of American motorcycling, hm?

Well over half the US population live in tight, urban areas. Where are their small, maneuverable bikes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51950ADVAlpina'tac View Post
For example: Buell ##may## have been clearing $50 Million USD of net profit for H-D in a calendar year.

However, when corporations shutter one subsidiary of their business (Buell) the IRS has these loopholes called "charges" and "expenses" which are incurred in said closing(s). So, even though Buell was hypothetically making a net profit of $50 Million USD per year, H-D was able to write off incurred "expenses" of say $300 Million, against the profits of the H-D parent Corp.. And actually, if done correctly, those $300 Million in expenses can be written off in annual chunks: a $60 Million expense write off in each of the next 5 years, for instance.

DO you get it?
And they were -still- able to qualify for bailout money.
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