ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-03-2011, 01:07 PM   #211
Tripped1
Likely Lost.
 
Tripped1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo
Oddometer: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Then once again your point is, well, what the hell is it? You really think the guy or gal that's never ridden a bike other than their 2-day MSF class (probably on a 300 lb bike) is best served strolled down to the HD dealer and rolling away on a 600 lb bike?
Again where did I EVER say best? I said they could do a LOT worse.....my 409 fully fueled Daytona for instance OR any of the 650 Twins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Or would it be smarter to buy something smaller? You didn't start that way, so I'm not really clear why you think it is ok for anyone else to.
I started as small as they get, not on the street admittedly, but you have to have a moped to go smaller.

I look at it a LOT differently that you. I'm more concerned about new riders being able to hit things going fast. If you tip over at a light because you jacked on the front brakes you mostly going to be embarrassed.....but you only hurt your ego. Heavier bikes are also a LOT less twitchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
What about the person that lives in town and commutes in town - plenty of people never need to hit the slab, so why deal with a slab-ready bike in town?
What is the difference? Since the throttle is JUST as valid of a tool to keep from getting run over as your brakes or maneuvering, "slab ready" simply means that you have enough power to get the hell out of the way. I live on a 50mph two-lane open access road, you BETTER have a little ass or you are going to get run over trying that "urban commute" in rush hour traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Harley serves neither of these market segments.
I disagree.

Again the Sportster is a perfectly valid starter, (mid control standard height 883) is a VERY VERY easy bike to handle that will tolerate all sorts of rider mistakes before putting you on the road. THAT makes it a perfectly good starter bike.

I mean really, my ex used to sling hers all over, she was all of 5'5 125lbs.....it was her first bike. When we met she had two Harley's and next to no riding skills besides shifting and rolling around WFO she would intentionally shift 2nd and dump the clutch in intersections just so the back end would slide around....

....and she didn't know what countersteering was....I had to do teach her after the first time she saw a track day.
Tripped1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #212
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Again where did I EVER say best? I said they could do a LOT worse.....my 409 fully fueled Daytona for instance OR any of the 650 Twins.

....

I disagree.

Again the Sportster is a perfectly valid starter, (mid control standard height 883) is a VERY VERY easy bike to handle that will tolerate all sorts of rider mistakes before putting you on the road. THAT makes it a perfectly good starter bike.
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree wholeheartedly and would never suggest such a bike as a starter. Someone looking for a light commuter wouldn't even consider H-D, so I wouldn't even need to have that conversation. FWIW, though, if someone asked me I'd try to steer them towards the best bike available for their needs, not one that just manages to be adequate.

There is a market for smaller bikes, and H-D doesn't participate.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:17 PM   #213
Tripped1
Likely Lost.
 
Tripped1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo
Oddometer: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree wholeheartedly and would never suggest such a bike as a starter. Someone looking for a light commuter wouldn't even consider H-D, so I wouldn't even need to have that conversation. FWIW, though, if someone asked me I'd try to steer them towards the best bike available for their needs, not one that just manages to be adequate.

There is a market for smaller bikes, and H-D doesn't participate.

Yeah there is a market alright, in Asia, no one here buys them.
Tripped1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:20 PM   #214
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Yeah there is a market alright, in Asia, no one here buys them.
Funny, I see plenty of small bikes around town. The larger BMW and Harley's are the rarity, not the other way around.

Scooters, 250cc cruiser copies, sportbikes, dualsports, you name it.

My wee strom is usually by far the largest bike in the parking lot, and you have to fight for bike parking in this town.

Of course, the plural of anecdote is not data, but I'd trust Harley's savvy assessment of the market a lot better if they didn't accept bailout money.

Have I mentioned that enough yet?

Harley took bailout money, people!
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 01:59 PM   #215
Tripped1
Likely Lost.
 
Tripped1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo
Oddometer: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Funny, I see plenty of small bikes around town. The larger BMW and Harley's are the rarity, not the other way around.

Scooters, 250cc cruiser copies, sportbikes, dualsports, you name it.

My wee strom is usually by far the largest bike in the parking lot, and you have to fight for bike parking in this town.

Of course, the plural of anecdote is not data, but I'd trust Harley's savvy assessment of the market a lot better if they didn't accept bailout money.

Have I mentioned that enough yet?

Harley took bailout money, people!
Not sure where you are, but my 675 gets called a toy and I've frequently gotten "you rode that from where?" with the Triple.


I see ONE guy that rides a DLX to work after that its mostly standard twins Air Cooled Triumphs and Ducai's and Harleys, lots and lots of Harleys.
Tripped1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 02:22 PM   #216
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
Not sure where you are, but my 675 gets called a toy and I've frequently gotten "you rode that from where?" with the Triple.


I see ONE guy that rides a DLX to work after that its mostly standard twins Air Cooled Triumphs and Ducai's and Harleys, lots and lots of Harleys.
I don't get much guff, but the wee looks a lot bigger than it is. I do get asked what the hell it is, though.

I'm in a left-leaning college town, of course, with bikes packed into a 10' x 15' right triangle like sardines every couple buildings and jammed 4-deep into a car parking spot elsewhere in town. There are moderate sized cities less than 7 miles away, but traffic is so bad you're better off avoiding the slab and taking a 45mph back road or two anyway.

Mostly, I just see Harleys on really nice days, especially Sundays. I almost never see a Triumph, unfortunately.


This is one of the wider-open spots (as it is essentially a student-free building on the far corner of campus.):



Really it displays the local parking asshattery more than anything else, that was a nice, shiny, "big bike" day (the silver one next to the strom I've seen twice since, the blue one never). The yellow on the Kwak's seat was a post-it note informing the owner of said asshattery.

Imagine that same spot with six or seven bikes and you'll get the idea.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #217
Berto
Beastly Adventurer
 
Berto's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Alachua, Fla
Oddometer: 1,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Funny, I'd trust Harley's savvy assessment of the market a lot better if they didn't accept bailout money.

Have I mentioned that enough yet?

Harley took bailout money, people!

Big deal So did Ford ,BMW and Toyota.

"In the depths of the financial collapse, the U.S. Federal Reserve pumped $3.3 trillion into keeping credit moving through the economy. It eventually lent $57.9 billion to the auto industry — including $26.8 billion to Ford, Toyota and BMW".

http://jalopnik.com/#!5704575/ford-bmw-toyota-took-secret-government-money
Berto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 07:24 PM   #218
Vertical C
Beastly Adventurer
 
Vertical C's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Oddometer: 2,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post

Of course, the plural of anecdote is not data, but I'd trust Harley's savvy assessment of the market a lot better if they didn't accept bailout money.
I would have thought that no matter what they sold an manufacturer of a big ticket discretionary item such as a motorcycle manufacturer is going to do it tough in a crisis no matter what they build.

I thought the Japanese did it tough as well, or did that not analyse the market correctly either?
Vertical C is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 07:02 AM   #219
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berto View Post
Big deal So did Ford ,BMW and Toyota.
[/URL]
You say that like it is a good thing.

HD had 2.3 billion of it's debt bought up by the Fed. 2.3 billion.

HD doesn't have a massive auto manufacturing arm, either. By contrast, they also bought 1.45 billion of Verizon's debt and 203 billion of McDonald's debt.

H-D has 7300 employees and how many factories? What the hell?
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 09:04 AM   #220
Berto
Beastly Adventurer
 
Berto's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Alachua, Fla
Oddometer: 1,352
I just think its a non issue.
Berto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 09:12 AM   #221
Tripped1
Likely Lost.
 
Tripped1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo
Oddometer: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
You say that like it is a good thing.

HD had 2.3 billion of it's debt bought up by the Fed. 2.3 billion.

HD doesn't have a massive auto manufacturing arm, either. By contrast, they also bought 1.45 billion of Verizon's debt and 203 billion of McDonald's debt.

H-D has 7300 employees and how many factories? What the hell?

You are mistaking bailouts and sound business.

Harley took a HUGE loan from Warren Buffet at essentially 10% interest, THEN went back to the Treasury and got 2 or 3 billion in TARP money to shore up the financing arm.

That was bailout.

Companies letting the Fed buy commercial paper at sub 1% interest rates, why wouldn't they. Remember when all the big banks nearly went tits up the market for commercial short term bonds (the very ones that pay your paycheck at most large corporations) went with it.

So the Fed stepped in and started buying these short term notes and EXTREMELY good interest rates...next to nothing. So any company with a bean counter jumped onboard for essentially free money.

Do I agree with it, not really, private citizens weren't getting 0.07% interest loans, but I can't really fault business for getting in on that one.
Tripped1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 09:58 AM   #222
ph0rk
Doesn't Care
 
ph0rk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Oaktown
Oddometer: 2,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post

Do I agree with it, not really, private citizens weren't getting 0.07% interest loans, but I can't really fault business for getting in on that one.
That must be one of the American values you support when you buy a HD.


Not to single them out, of course - every company that took the nearly-free bailout loan without a resulting partial taxpayer ownership of said company is a bunch of lying, cheating scumbags.

It just happens that they are our kind of lying, cheating scumbags, I guess.
__________________
--Semantics are everything.
ph0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 10:10 AM   #223
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 10,262
Not to muddy the water with facts or anything, but TARP is expected to make a profit for the Fed and is ahead of their projected income right now.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center...es/tg1049.aspx
__________________
640E, MXC200, XT200
Grreatdog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 10:23 AM   #224
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,688
Time to kick this to CS&Money????
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 10:23 AM   #225
Tripped1
Likely Lost.
 
Tripped1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo
Oddometer: 7,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
That must be one of the American values you support when you buy a HD.
Incorrect, I've have never bought a bike from HD,


Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Not to single them out, of course - every company that took the nearly-free bailout loan without a resulting partial taxpayer ownership of said company is a bunch of lying, cheating scumbags.
Again, there is a difference between the Department of the Treasury (TARP) and the Federal Reserve. Harley took Treasury money, the other listed sold short term bonds because the Fed had the best deal in town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
It just happens that they are our kind of lying, cheating scumbags, I guess.

You DO understand that the Federal Reserve despite its name is NOT actually part of the Government, its Government sponsored, but is actually a Corporation.
Tripped1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014