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Old 10-10-2011, 05:41 PM   #811
pretbek
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Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post
I think they have to do a few things to the motor to make it a decent touring platform. I have stroked mine to 1402 cu in. and it's now making just over 100 lb-ft of torque... At those levels it would work great, but H-D would have a lot of work to do in the long term reliability dept, although I am regularly thrashing this motor now and no ill effects yet.

The poster above you said it would not sell - I do agree it would not sell to the "Traditional" H-D crowd, but H-D does need to make some radical moves to attract new blood. This would be one way to do that.

I would say a 23 liter (1402 cu in) engine in a motorcycle is rather radical!
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:45 PM   #812
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The poster above you said it would not sell - I do agree it would not sell to the "Traditional" H-D crowd, but H-D does need to make some radical moves to attract new blood. This would be one way to do that.
When they dumped Buell, it was becasue they didn't need to expand the core market, they were doing just fine ThankYouVeryMuch.

I do wish they'd make up my mind.

Next thing, they're going to say they're going Superbike racing again.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:58 PM   #813
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When they dumped Buell, it was becasue they didn't need to expand the core market, they were doing just fine ThankYouVeryMuch.

I do wish they'd make up my mind.

Next thing, they're going to say they're going Superbike racing again.
Their CEO must be hanging out with the Netflix guy.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:21 PM   #814
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I had a sportster once. The biggest P.O.S. I have ever owned (but a mostly reliable P.O.S. as long as you could stand a seat that was made specifically so you would by a different one, and never needed to travel over 68mph for an extended period of time, and could afford to by new taillight assemblies every 3,000 miles because the vibes caused them to break and fall off! And if you didn't mind paying for your 5 and 10 thousand mile valve adjustments to not void the warranty AND pay to have them fix the leaky valve covers that didn't leak until they adjusted the valves! )

My local HD dealership is pretty stupid. Plus the owners and salespersons are arrogant dicks. You have to wade through all kinds of merchandise to find the bikes and they seem to be the same OLD crap. Oh wait, this year they have new chrome, or they lowered this model and blacked it out, so it is a new bike.

If they made a bike that cornered and stopped well, and didn't look like an old shiny turd, they would have something!

Oh wait, they had Buell, and shitcanned them. WTF?

Oh yeah, and perhaps if they weren't so ridiculously over priced! 20 grand for a heavy, air cooled bike with no suspension and 20 year old technology? I don't think so!
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:06 PM   #815
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Oh yeah, and perhaps if they weren't so ridiculously over priced! 20 grand for a heavy, air cooled bike with no suspension and 20 year old technology? I don't think so!

You see this here ^^^ is just more of the parroted myths about Harley Davidson’s.

The fuel mapping is very functional and in many ways an industry leader. HD's get better fuel economy than the imitating clones from Japan. Yes they are air cooled. Is that truly a bad thing? I personally like air cooled bikes (with oil coolers) over water cooled bikes.

And to say they are over priced is a bit silly. If you don't want to buy one then don't but Harleys have gotten better and better over the last ten years and have basically STAYED THE SAME PRICE while their competitors have gone up an average of $500 a year.

Buy a Yamaha (or any non Harley) Cruiser and it looses about 40% of its value in two years.

Buy a $20,000 HD and 5 years down the road it is still worth about $15,000.

Now I am not so foolish as to think of a motorcycle (not just Harleys) as an "investment" ... But I will say that if you like riding as much as I do, they actually pay far more dividends in pleasure and joy that you would be hard pressed to place a monitary value on making them a far better investment than anything else I am aware of.

At present I do not own a Harley (I have owned them in the past...Now I ride them every day but don't own one) but I will be buying a XR1200X as soon as it is fesably possible.

I am just NOT a cruiser kind of guy. Been there done that. With over 60% of bikes sold in the USA being cruisers they must appeal to MOST riders.
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DAKEZ screwed with this post 10-10-2011 at 11:21 PM
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:37 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
I had a sportster once. The biggest P.O.S. I have ever owned (but a mostly reliable P.O.S. as long as you could stand a seat that was made specifically so you would by a different one, and never needed to travel over 68mph for an extended period of time, and could afford to by new taillight assemblies every 3,000 miles because the vibes caused them to break and fall off! And if you didn't mind paying for your 5 and 10 thousand mile valve adjustments to not void the warranty AND pay to have them fix the leaky valve covers that didn't leak until they adjusted the valves! )

My local HD dealership is pretty stupid. Plus the owners and salespersons are arrogant dicks. You have to wade through all kinds of merchandise to find the bikes and they seem to be the same OLD crap. Oh wait, this year they have new chrome, or they lowered this model and blacked it out, so it is a new bike.

If they made a bike that cornered and stopped well, and didn't look like an old shiny turd, they would have something!

Oh wait, they had Buell, and shitcanned them. WTF?

Oh yeah, and perhaps if they weren't so ridiculously over priced! 20 grand for a heavy, air cooled bike with no suspension and 20 year old technology? I don't think so!
your local dealer might be stupid but he is still way way smarter than you.. after all he convinced you to pay for valve adjustments on a sportster. well duh.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:39 PM   #817
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I've noticed , when comparing "Harley vs Other" prices, folks often don't do Apple-Apple comparisons.

They'll quote the price of a fully farkled Ultra vs a base model Honda Shadow.

Kind of stupid, if you ask me. (Not that you did, and not that what I say matters )
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:39 PM   #818
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:59 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by ShardPhoenix View Post
I've noticed , when comparing "Harley vs Other" prices, folks often don't do Apple-Apple comparisons.

2012 Yamaha Royal Star Venture S MSRP Starting at $20,190.00 KBB value for 2009 $12,590.00

2012 Harley FLHTC MSRP Staring at $19,499.00 KBB value for 2009 $18,335.00



2012 Yamaha Stratoliner S MSRP Starting at: $16,590.00 KBB '09' $10,675.00

2012 Harley Road King: MSRP Starting at $17,499.00 KBB '09' $16,760.00



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DAKEZ screwed with this post 10-10-2011 at 11:12 PM
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:07 PM   #820
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How DARE you post up a $20,000 YAMAHA that will depreciate that much!

How are people going to keep believing that Harley Davidsons are over priced!

People need to quit bringing facts to the table, it doesn't make for good interweb flame wars.

Sportster Iron 883- $7,999

Honda Shadow RS/Phantom/Aero/Spirt- $8,240

Yep.. Them durn HD's is SPENSIVE.

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Old 10-10-2011, 11:33 PM   #821
DAKEZ
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Venture rated at 39 mpg carberated
FLHTC rated at 48 mpg F/I

Damn "20 year old technology"
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:50 AM   #822
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Originally Posted by waveydavey View Post
your local dealer might be stupid but he is still way way smarter than you.. after all he convinced you to pay for valve adjustments on a sportster. well duh.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:10 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
You see this here ^^^ is just more of the parroted myths about Harley Davidson’s.

The fuel mapping is very functional and in many ways an industry leader. HD's get better fuel economy than the imitating clones from Japan. Yes they are air cooled. Is that truly a bad thing? I personally like air cooled bikes (with oil coolers) over water cooled bikes.

And to say they are over priced is a bit silly. If you don't want to buy one then don't but Harleys have gotten better and better over the last ten years and have basically STAYED THE SAME PRICE while their competitors have gone up an average of $500 a year.

Buy a Yamaha (or any non Harley) Cruiser and it looses about 40% of its value in two years.

Buy a $20,000 HD and 5 years down the road it is still worth about $15,000.

Now I am not so foolish as to think of a motorcycle (not just Harleys) as an "investment" ... But I will say that if you like riding as much as I do, they actually pay far more dividends in pleasure and joy that you would be hard pressed to place a monitary value on making them a far better investment than anything else I am aware of.

At present I do not own a Harley (I have owned them in the past...Now I ride them every day but don't own one) but I will be buying a XR1200X as soon as it is fesably possible.

I am just NOT a cruiser kind of guy. Been there done that. With over 60% of bikes sold in the USA being cruisers they must appeal to MOST riders.
Owning two Harleys, I can speak with a little experience here. For reference, I have a 2010 FLHTK that's averaging 25,000 miles a year, and a 2005 FXSTB/I that's averaging 6,000 miles a year (though 10,000 of that is this year). I've ridden just about everything out there, and I do all my own maintenance, and I can fix just about anything.

The FLHTK is simply the most comfortable 2-up cruiser my wife and I have ridden. That includes the Vic Vision, the BMW K1600 GTL, and the 'Wing. 2-up and loaded for a 10-day trip, the bike gets 38-40mpg, and has ample power to get us through the mountains. For a 900 pound, top-heavy bike, it's a pleasure to ride in traffic and through technical mountain switchbacks (think Mt. Nebo in Arkansas). Now granted, I've changed a lot on the bike (floating rotors, Ohlins suspension, and various comfort items), but the basic package fits us perfectly, and it's a hoot to hustle the beast through the corners. It'll never be confused with a Ducati Monster, but that's not its purpose. It's got an impressively long list of modern technology and convenience features (excellent fuel injection, ABS, electronic throttle with cruise, heated grips, kick-ass stereo) that make the bike a pleasure to spend time on.

What is utterly disappointing is the sheer amount of shit that's broken on the bike. Again, according to Harley's own market research, the typical owner rides between 1,300~1,600 miles a year, so I'm well outside what they design the bikes for. But in nearly 50,000 miles, the list of things replaced is just ridiculous (IDS, stator, compensator, clutch, breathers, stereo, wheels, and so on). It's never left me stranded, and I've never had to pull a tool out of the bag to fix anything on the road, but that's not really the point. Were it not for the 7 year unlimited mileage warranty, it'd be gone.

With that said the '05, other than the leaky valve guide seals that were a problem on all '05s, has been flawless.

We can all bitch about them shuttering Buell, but the fact of the matter is that no one was buying them. They were quirky bikes that were poorly marketed. It's a damn shame, 'cause I really wanted a Uly.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:34 AM   #824
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We can all bitch about them shuttering Buell, but the fact of the matter is that no one was buying them..

Not true. Buell was profitable when they pulled the plug and had just came out with a bike that should have been given a chance to catch on.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:36 AM   #825
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I've been watching this discussion for some time and thought I'd share my thoughts. H-D is currently on the skids as Cadillac was a few years ago. Namely their core market is shrinking and unless they re-brand their image like Cadillac, their image as a major marque is uncertain. Corporate sales are way down according to a a long time friend who has worked at his uncle's H-D dealership in D.C. for about 30 years. The amount of used H-Ds on Craigslist is disproportionately high, hence the optiomistic used prices KBB cites are unrealistic. H-D isn't immune from supply/demand economics. DakeZ also asssumes that Jap bikes sell new at MSRP which escalates the apparent depreciation. I never paid MSRP for my Yam/Suz, but know plenty of H-D guys that did.

So why did I never buy one? Well, I wanted to when I was 16 years old watching "Then Came Bronson" every week. When time came to buy my first big bike in the late 70's, I looked at H-D and had GI buddies who rode them- or should I say fixed them. It seemed like they broke down nearly every week. Vibrating like crazy and dropping pieces all over the place--- even worse than the Triumph TR6 auto I was driving at the time. I rode them and found them to handle poorly, cornering was $#!t and brakes were weak. So, I bought a Yamaha XS750. It never broke until a Gamma Goat wiped it and four other parked bikes out. I then bought a GS1000, rode it for 7 years and it never broke down. Then a 1100 Katana, rode for 10 years and it ever broke. Even my R1100RS never broke in the years I had it. All these bikes required was routine maintenance.

H-D has never been on my radar for consideration.
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