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Old 01-30-2011, 12:29 PM   #1
AdvGa OP
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Replacement/Non-OEM Clutch Master Cylinder Leaking again ! Fiasco

I can't believe this Clutch Master System and thought I'd share this experience so you don't think you are crazy.

Yesterday, while enjoying a Fine Day with my '06 950 Adventure, my Clutch decided to quit working (in heavy traffic of course)... and again Weeping out of the Cylinder.

Luckily, after about 2 minor stops, repairs, I was able to get it home before it went out again.

All this after:
1- Rebuilding the Master Cylinder Kit in 05/10 for the same reason.
2- At the Same time, replaced the Slave Cylinder (though working) with the High Quality one by http://www.evoluzione.net/evo-cycle.htm

Good for a while until yesterday. Then tried to find a Better Quality Master Cylinder unit and can't find one. My local KTM Dealer said they don't stock any since No One has had problems... I seem to be always an excepton to these rules.

Well until I can find a Quality Replacement, took the Master Piston out which seems to be in Pristine condition, Cleaned it up and got it to work... but for how long? It did take me hours to get the Cricle Clip to work after finding it was Slightly Not expanding to hold and had to find a New Replacement from AutoZone (2nd Store finally had it) that had only 1 Box available with an assortment. One of them worked, and this one (Due to the High Quality of Parts in Stores Now) had to be Drilled to make the Holes big enough to fit the Snap Ring Pliers Tool made in the same locale.

Thanks to a picture from Greenpat, it helped me figure out what the problem was, not too many of these hanging around:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ylinder&page=7

For the life of me, I do not understand why they would use a low quality Aluminum bore for something this important on a Bike's Clutch system.

So when I find a Better unit I will let you know... for this should not be so HARD to find for something so Universal to Motorcycles.

So if anyone has some ideas with this matter I would be happy to hear them and hope this will help others in the mean time.

AdvGa screwed with this post 02-06-2011 at 06:16 PM Reason: Changed Title
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
TMoore
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Me too.

My 04 started leaking at the clutch master one sub freezing day late in 2008.
I put the KTM piston seal kit in it and rode all of 2009 until once again late in
the season it started leaking at the master again. So I replaced it with a new
master that my KTM dealer kindly sold me for cost. I rode it all of 2010 and
so far no problems. I replaced the slave with an Evo unit long ago. Bad
masters appear to be rare but do happen.

YMMV
Tim
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:21 PM   #3
AdvGa OP
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TM,

Glad things worked out for you. My bike only has 7k miles and this is toooo premature for this to happen.

I am waiting for Monday, first business day, to get the range of possibilties that may be:

Brembo, Galfer/Accossato Master Cylinders , OEM Options/Magura?, and hopefully other choices. The OEM Magura is about $350 and the other Racing Version of other MFG's are about the Same Price... hopefully not made of Aluminum.....

I let you all know what the options are if you are interested.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:16 PM   #4
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Pissed possible leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvGa View Post
I can't believe this Clutch Master System and thought I'd share this experience so you don't think you are crazy.

Yesterday, while enjoying a Fine Day with my '06 950 Adventure, my Clutch decided to quit working (in heavy traffic of course)... and again Weeping out of the Cylinder.

Luckily, after about 2 minor stops, repairs, I was able to get it home before it went out again.

All this after:
1- Rebuilding the Master Cylinder Kit in 05/10 for the same reason.
2- At the Same time, replaced the Slave Cylinder (though working) with the High Quality one by http://www.evoluzione.net/evo-cycle.htm

Good for a while until yesterday. Then tried to find a Better Quality Master Cylinder unit and can't find one. My local KTM Dealer said they don't stock any since No One has had problems... I seem to be always an excepton to these rules.

Well until I can find a Quality Replacement, took the Master Piston out which seems to be in Pristine condition, Cleaned it up and got it to work... but for how long? It did take me hours to get the Cricle Clip to work after finding it was Slightly Not expanding to hold and had to find a New Replacement from AutoZone (2nd Store finally had it) that had only 1 Box available with an assortment. One of them worked, and this one (Due to the High Quality of Parts in Stores Now) had to be Drilled to make the Holes big enough to fit the Snap Ring Pliers Tool made in the same locale.

Thanks to a picture from Greenpat, it helped me figure out what the problem was, not too many of these hanging around:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ylinder&page=7

For the life of me, I do not understand why they would use a low quality Aluminum bore for something this important on a Bike's Clutch system.

So when I find a Better unit I will let you know... for this should not be so HARD to find for something so Universal to Motorcycles.

So if anyone has some ideas with this matter I would be happy to hear them and hope this will help others in the mean time.
I too had a good leak on my Master, mine actally wasnt the plunger seal. mine was actually the master cover seeping out the machined vent hole and running down to the plunger making me think that was the problem. wouldnt hurt for you to remove the 2 screws and see if something is going on. my problem was someone got carried away putting the screws for the cap on during a service and put a new hole next to the factory one in the rubber diagram below the cap allowing oil to run out the vent directly above the plunger.

this may or may not be your problem but it took me a new rebuild kit and several madning days to figure out what was going on


good luck.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:41 AM   #5
rider914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvGa
My local KTM Dealer said they don't stock any since No One has had problems... I seem to be always an excepton to these rules.
Well... add me to the list

My stock clutch MC lasted near 40k miles until it started to leak. First rebuild lasted ~2k miles, every one after that was less than 1k. You gotta buy a whole kit with new piston, seals, spring, clip, boot, etc. Careful inspection of the cyl bore looks like there is a small bare aluminum area. It is not a wear mark, all of the pistons are pristine. Maybe a bubble in the manufacturing process where everything else is coated or hard anodized.

Replacement OEM seems inappropriately expensive when you can get a brand new complete clutch MC for the smaller bikes for ~$120. Unfortunately, as I found out, they wont work because the res doesn't clear the bulky switchpod on the big bikes.

For a long time I just kept the res topped off and lived with a messy left lever. Finally scored a complete used used MC from the flea market and everything is fine so far...

-M
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:38 AM   #6
TMoore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider914 View Post
Well... add me to the list

My stock clutch MC lasted near 40k miles until it started to leak. First rebuild lasted ~2k miles, every one after that was less than 1k. You gotta buy a whole kit with new piston, seals, spring, clip, boot, etc. Careful inspection of the cyl bore looks like there is a small bare aluminum area. It is not a wear mark, all of the pistons are pristine. Maybe a bubble in the manufacturing process where everything else is coated or hard anodized.

-M
I got about 20k miles out of mine and it took a really cold day to start it
leaking. I saw exactly what you describe in the cyl bore.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:43 PM   #7
AdvGa OP
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Well, so it seeeems I am the only one with a Consistantly Weeping Clutch Master and was not comfortable with Replacing with the OEM Magura (helpful website)
http://www.powersports.magura.com/pr...p-0120576.html

I did some research and found these other Options:

1-Accossato Radial Clutch Master 16x16 -Ask about the Reservoir Mounting Kit -(however, Does Not offer a Rebuild Kit -yet)
http://www.solomotoparts.com/product...5&cat=0&page=1

20 CC Reservoir Kit:
http://www.solomotoparts.com/product...cat=324&page=1

2- Brembo 16 RCS -See Mounting Kit Options Below (Does Not Offer a Rebuild Kit -yet)
http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore...idProduct=1022

Mounting Kits:
http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore...idproduct=1120
http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore...idProduct=1121


Ordered the Accossato on Wednesday and got it by USPS by today, Saturday. Started by 12:30 PM and had the Accossato 16x16 working by 3:30 PM.

Here is the Top View of the Original:


View without the GPS Mount:


View with Clutch Master Removed: (I elected to UnSolder the Brown/Yellow Wire to the Clutch Switch (disabled it anyway at the Kickstand), since did not want to remove the whole Cable)


Here is the Side by Side View of the 2 Units with the New One on the Right:


Here's the View with the 16x16 Mounted: (Had to slightly rotate the Grip/Lightswitch mount forward to keep the New Lever from hitting the Flash-To-Pass Switch)


Here's the View with the Reservoir (20 CC) Attached (so far):


Look Mom ! Notice how you can see the Fluid Level now...No Surprises. I am using AmsOil Syn ATF Fluid (Red You can See It). Could not use Brake Fluid, and Accossato did not recommend Mineral Oil.... so using next best thing w/color.

Now to figure how to:
1- Mount the Choke Plate
ChokePlate Top Mount:


Choke Plate Bottom View:


2- Mounted the DoubleTakeMirror w/Handlebar Ram Mount...since this unit does not come with a Mirror Mount.
http://www.motoadv.com/products/Doub...re-Mirror.html

This is a DoubleTake Mirror Install view before the GPS Mount:


This a the Finished DoubleTake Mirror Install with the GPS Mount in place:


Finished Reservoir Mount Install w/Extended Brace from short (20 CC) Reservoir Bracket to Handguard Mount.


3- Modify the Handguard since this Unit (Adj Screw) sits about a 1/4-1/2 " beyond the Handguard facing.

Modded Handguard Outside: (Will figure out later how to make a Cover for this Opening.) Hole to allow access to Adjustment Screw / Lever Pivot.


Modded Handguard Inside Inside View:


So far, Feels Good, No Weeping, and I can see the Fluid without being caught in Traffic or Woods with No Warning.



AdvGa screwed with this post 02-18-2011 at 12:44 PM
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:51 PM   #8
Chuckracer
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Three questions: What are you going to use for a reservoir, what are you gonna do for a choke, and where are you going to mount your left mirror?
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:00 PM   #9
AdvGa OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer View Post
Three questions: What are you going to use for a reservoir, what are you gonna do for a choke, and where are you going to mount your left mirror?
Chuck,
1-The Reservoir is (at this time) mounted on top
2- The Choke Plate will Fit on top of the New Unit and will customize an attachment to keep it in place.
3- The Mirror... still working on this one and let you know if I keep this one or get another type for easier mountng.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:15 PM   #10
Chuckracer
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Ah...nice edit.

Cool idea...thanks!
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Old 02-05-2011, 11:23 PM   #11
AdvGa OP
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Finished mounting the Accossato Clutch Master. Not as much modification as originally thought it would be for I thought it would render the Handguard useless, but didn't..

My apologies to the professional fabricators...for the minor items, this will do until perhaps a better solution is found.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:42 PM   #12
AdvGa OP
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Covered the Opened Up Handguard hole w/Flexible material and to keep the elements out.



Will get rid of the bungie cord that holds the Temp Mirror attachment when the New DoubleTake Mirror arrives, in a couple of days, with the Ram Mount handlebar attachment. Since the original mount was built in the Clutch Master that was replaced.

http://www.motoadv.com/products/Doub...re-Mirror.html

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Old 02-08-2011, 03:35 PM   #13
sp4ce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvGa View Post
My local KTM Dealer said they don't stock any since No One has had problems...
It's always either that or "they all do that" isn't it?

I may be following in your footsteps soon - first rebuild at 35k and now 10k later it's weeping again.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #14
AdvGa OP
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Finished the project by removing the Temp. Mirror Mount and added the
DoubleTake Mirror & Handlebar Ram Mounts:

http://www.motoadv.com/products/Doub...re-Mirror.html

Now we are safely ready to ride with confidence!
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:03 AM   #15
matrixadventure
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I have just joined, so this post might be a bit late...

My '08 Adv S also had a weeping problem and I had it replaced with an aftermarket Magura unit for +/- $60 plus a lot for the oil.

It works fine.
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