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Old 06-17-2012, 05:30 PM   #226
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So ... It seems that what was rubbing was the spring. So for the first try here we're going to simply shave down the spring. I'll let you know how it goes ...

I got excited and didn't snap a pic of the original spring, but I had one on the shelf. This is a pic of the unmolested spring on the flange that came out of the extended swingarm:



This is the spring that came on it, and what it looks like now ....



I think this will be OK ... While I hate the idea of removing some of the spring ... I didn't get to much of the spring metal's height. So .... Thoughts?
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #227
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AS long as the temper didnt change much I suspect you'll never know the difference
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:01 PM   #228
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AS long as the temper didnt change much I suspect you'll never know the difference
I think you're right. We'll see if I get the clearance I need ...
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:07 PM   #229
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So .. I installed the swingarm and it was still rubbing pretty good .. In a moment of complete madness, I took it apart again in the hopes of seeing where it was rubbing. I thought I found it too ... So ... The welded on tube (I'm assuming it's a tube) is fairly wide ... so I decided to take a bit off it.

It started as 28mm in diameter, and an hour later it was ~24mm in diameter.

Start:


Finish:


Then in another moment of madness ... I spied a Sharpie on the shelf. I grabbed it an put some lines on the shaft ... this way when it rubs maybe I can tell where it's rubbing.

The lines:


I installed it, and got another inch of travel ... but it was still rubbing ... so I took the shaft out again, and what do you know but the plan worked.

Rub:


The rub was in a place I hadn't thought about ... so ... I ground about a mm off of it and reinstalled.

Now ... I have about 9" of travel. NICE. I will be taking an inch off either end and the travel will be about 7.5 inches in the rear so that there is no chance of shaft damage at either end.

Now ... I finally get to weld the shock mount on.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:36 PM   #230
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That explains your activities today.

Nice work, Chemist.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #231
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OK ... So got home from Florida on Saturday, and really needed a garage day to sort through things. I needed a project and there was this poor extended swingarm with no landing for a shock on it. It was time to change that.

I found on the side of the road a 'fork lift bumper' (yes, I find stuff on the side of the road that I will use on my BMW). These are the steel 'bumpers' that fit on warehouse racking systems so that when a forklift hits it ... it sustains damage instead of the entire warehouse rack coming down. It is 3/16 steel and plenty tough. We had our donor.

Our Bumper:


I borrowed Brad's welder and zizz saw and went to work (Brad's involved, is it making more sense now?). I had found a shock that *I believe* will work. It's from a 2008 Yamaha R1. There are similar weights to the Dobber and it, and the new swingarm will be comparable to the length of the R1's swingarm. I am sure that there will need to be some fine tuning, but here is where we will start.

So, I cut up the bumper. The bumper is 3/16 steel. And it's a higher grade .. I destroyed the first bit I used to try and drill through it. I had to go to cutting oil and turning down the speed of the press.

Final mock:


So ... beginneth the welding. As welding is clearly my 'weakest skill' (Read no skill), I decided to practice first. I took pieces of that bumper and cut them up .. to weld together again. I got the lighting right, and got my eye protection dialed in (Sunglasses under a welding mask). Here is my get up testing my skillz on Brad's bike:

(PS - That's a tupperware lid over the front ... provides a LOT of air circulation, because I sweat. A LOT)

I then went to work on the swing arm. First I tacked it as it sits. Then I took it completely apart and finished the job. Here's the result. They are not the prettiest welds, but they will hold and are very strong.



And:


Next: Replacing the subframe ... putting a GS subframe on and RT is not just a swap ... there is a couple mismatched connections. Also, the StephenB modification of a GS rear hub.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:09 PM   #232
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First off I'm not trying to insult you.

I really hate top be the bearer of bad news, but do your project and yourself a favor and grind off all that crap, turn up your heat and down your wire speed, give it a good tack on each end and make yourself a spacer the same width as the lower shock bushing and bolt it in there. The slow down, its not a race. Get your heat setting right so that your just hot enough that the weld is melding both the mount plate and the tube, but not blowing holes.

Then starting on one side weld 1 inch and stop. Let it cool down to just cool enough that you can touch it and not burn your self (about 5 minutes) now weld 1 inch on the other side plate. Stop and let it cool. Repeat this process back and forth letting it cool down to at least 200 degrees each time. By not welding it all you will keep your drive shaft tube from warping, and yes it will warp! Hopefully it didn't warp too much and you should be able to relieve any twist or warp by cutting it all off and trying again.

Also make sure there are no old paint, you want a really clean fresh steel on both surfaces to get good penetration. Also make sure you have a really good clean ground, again no paint. I am a professional welder and fabricator and I don't mind giving advice to people who are just learning but perhaps more practice will save you from a horrible accident when this mount breaks off at speed down the road or 50 miles in the back woods.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask questions. I hope this helps. Later Travis
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #233
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Quote:
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First off I'm not trying to insult you.

I really hate top be the bearer of bad news, but do your project and yourself a favor and grind off all that crap, turn up your heat and down your wire speed, give it a good tack on each end and make yourself a spacer the same width as the lower shock bushing and bolt it in there. The slow down, its not a race. Get your heat setting right so that your just hot enough that the weld is melding both the mount plate and the tube, but not blowing holes.
It's true .. I am learning (sort of). Thanks for the advice ... I will grind off the excess, and I have yet to do the other side so I will turn up the heat and slow the wire. The heat was at %40 and the wire was at 2/10 ...

Quote:
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Then starting on one side weld 1 inch and stop. Let it cool down to just cool enough that you can touch it and not burn your self (about 5 minutes) now weld 1 inch on the other side plate. Stop and let it cool. Repeat this process back and forth letting it cool down to at least 200 degrees each time. By not welding it all you will keep your drive shaft tube from warping, and yes it will warp! Hopefully it didn't warp too much and you should be able to relieve any twist or warp by cutting it all off and trying again.
The shaft was removed. I've gotten pretty good at doing that, as thinning the extended shaft was on the to do list.

Quote:
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Also make sure there are no old paint, you want a really clean fresh steel on both surfaces to get good penetration. Also make sure you have a really good clean ground, again no paint. I am a professional welder and fabricator and I don't mind giving advice to people who are just learning but perhaps more practice will save you from a horrible accident when this mount breaks off at speed down the road or 50 miles in the back woods.
I did. If you are not seeing 'penetration' it was probably due to an earlier observation of not having enough heat on it ... but we'll see when I grind off the excess.

Quote:
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Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask questions. I hope this helps. Later Travis
Thanks for the input Travis. As this is new to me ... I am posting this to hopefully understand how to do it properly ... I've seen welds that are 'perfect' but have yet to make one ... but progress is coming.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:54 PM   #234
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Fred, I would run the heat at D on that one. Brad and I have the same welder, wire speed I'd say around.....3. D shouldn't blow, you need more penetration into the arm and the mount. you may even want to weld up that extra hole in the mount and grind the excess off. Just a thought.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:25 PM   #235
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Also you want to aim the welding gun at about a 45 degree to the tube and plate but shift the angle towards the tube because there is more metal and it will dissipate the heat faster than the thin plate. Weld up the parts in short 1/2 to 1 inch beads. If you think your going to burn a hole just stop and wait a few seconds for it to cool then start again, also start all your welds over a previous weld and finish over the connecting weld, that is don't leave gaps when your done.

You definitely have no penetration, the bead is just sitting on top of the metal like glue. Put a few stress cycles through it and the plate will just tear away from the tube. You know your MIG is the right temp setting when you do your tacks at the ends if the plate flows into the base (tube) with minimal build up from the feed wire. Your end result should be a nice bead that is only slightly raised. Also a good tell tale that its not hot enough is the wire feels like its pushing the torch gun away from the puddle and there are a lot of sparks. If its at the right setting it will flow smoothly into the pool.

I hope this helps. Later Travis
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #236
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Point if order- he said "drive shaft tube" not "drive shaft" when referring to warpage, Fred.

Carry on! :salute
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #237
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One more thing is make a series of half moon motions as you work your way down the weld and push the bead. Once your weld pool is started and you see a visible pool of molten metal and the two parts are melting together start to stitch the parts together moving the heat from each part to the other back and forth while moving the length of the 1 inch area your working. Please resist the temptation to weld more than one inch at a time, you will literally heat soak the base metal and it will cause a stress fracture down the road if you don't have a way to heat treat the entire part. IE the swingarm will fail, maybe catastrophically.

I'm sure I'm leaving something out. If your using flux core welding wire make sure you can get all the flux slag off the weld bead after it cools, it will contaminate the weld down the road and cause a rust point under any paint you use.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:53 AM   #238
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Another thing I noticed in your pictures is all the pits in the welds, those are primarily caused by paint, dirt or other debris caught in the weld as it cools. This is bad and you must remove all of it and reweld. Get it as clean as possible, grind down to bare metal and remove paint as far back as 1/2 inch in both directions on all sides of both the plate and around the tube. I'd use a 4-1/2" grinder with a 60G flapper disc to remove the bulk of the old weld, break off the mount plates and continue to grind it all down flush. Then using the grinder remove all the paint from both sides of the plates leaving the surface super clean. Realign the parts and now tack weld just the very ends of the plates to the tube. Check for alignment. I'd also practice on several pieces of similar thickness scrap steel till you know your heat range is set correctly before proceeding with your finish welds.

This link may help you out if your more of a visual learner like I am. Good luck

http://www.profabricationtechniques....g/mig-welding/
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:06 AM   #239
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OK ... Turned up the heat, and kept the wire feed at the same rate. Practiced first on two pieces of similar steel and there was a drastic difference. I also believe that the outside welds are OK ... as I was going very slow and I was getting the same effect at the joint ... but then I piled on the wire.

So ... Better? How does one stop the spattering? (PS - Still not aesthetically pleasing ... but you can see the penetration)






And for reference:
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:46 PM   #240
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Wow Fred!!!! That looks great!!!! Ok, the spatter will never go away using a wire feed. You'll have to buy brad an argon bottle, a regulator, and a new pistol to switch him to a MIG setup. The spatter can be ground off with a wire wheel or you can use a slag hammer.! Good job~!!
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