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Old 09-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #2191
Emperor Norton
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Really good German food - um, isn't that contradiction in terms?
Wießbier, OK, but food?

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Beer aside, currywurst is delicious (for fast food) and sauerbraten can be. Besides any culture that can turn pigs into so much delicious sausage has something going for it. Also beer.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:32 PM   #2192
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That's good stuff, Def!! You a Navy man? It's not often I run across "Illegitimi non carborundum." My father was a submariner and he's got a lot of patches from the boats with that slogan...

Good stuff.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:33 PM   #2193
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I prefer your mission. Can I switch commanders?
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:35 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by rdcyclist View Post
I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked. Is that why they use more cylinders on those engines? Maybe we should be after BMW to make a six cylinder GS?

Yes, there is rocking couple in the Boxer twin. That's a different component of engine balance from harmonics. For a given power, displacement and cylinder count, the boxer motor is going to have less vibration than an inline or V configuration. I know this: All of my GS's have been smoother than my 4 cylinder FJR at cruising velocity. I sold the FJR because: The only thing the FJR did better than the GS was go 150mph...
One already exists...it called the Goldwing and it's water cooled.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:50 PM   #2195
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Originally Posted by ytsiwt View Post
2 cylinder boxers aren't that smooth.

Obviously the balance on the BMW boxer isn't that good or there would have been no need for BMW to add that single balance shaft to the 1200 hexhead or camhead.

The balance on the 6 cylinder boxer is excellent with some of the pistons always in motion and very little rocking couple.

The balance on the 4 cylinder boxer is OK but now some rocking couple enters and more 2nd order as there are points where all the pistons stop completely at the same time.

The balance on the 360° 2 cylinder boxers leave a lot to be desired, especially on large cylinder configurations, as the pistons are not directly across from each other due to being on different crank throws with an offset between rod centers. 2 cylinder 360° boxers also have both pistons completely stop and change direction twice per revolution. Lots of higher RPM buzz and rocking couple excitement.

The C/G on the BMW 2 cylinder boxer isn't all that great either as it has a deep wet sump so the crankshaft is high in the crankcase. The crank must also be high to keep the cylinder heads from dragging the ground in turns. That heavy alternator is also way up high way off the engine roll center. The transmission input shaft is high with the counter shaft not much lower.
Correctomundo.

Remember, as RPM changes, the pistons weight influence changes. Also, as the connecting rods reciprocate, a portion of their mass is able to be offset with crankshaft counter weight. But then, the connecting rod mass changes as its reciprocating mass becomes rotation mass....multicylinder engines can be made much smoother and their crankshafts can be made smaller and these engine can rev higher with fewer forces trying to tear them apart.

Take a look at a 4 row radial P&W or Wright aircraft engine sometime if you want to study the dynamics of force and mass in a piston engine.

An electric motor or a turbine is best. There are no reciprocating parts meaning balance is not a problem.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:19 PM   #2196
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One already exists...it called the Goldwing and it's water cooled.
And of course legend has it that BMW had a water cooled four banging boxer on the drawing board when they got wind that Honda would have the Goldwing engine on the market first. BMW didn't want to be accused of copying Honda, so they started over. Thus the Flying Brick came to be.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:25 PM   #2197
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Originally Posted by def View Post
Correctomundo.Take a look at a 4 row radial P&W or Wright aircraft engine sometime if you want to study the dynamics of force and mass in a piston engine.
Radials are things of beauty and the English sleeve valve radials were enormously complex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
An electric motor or a turbine is best. There are no reciprocating parts meaning balance is not a problem.
Or, viewed slightly differently, balance is a big problem if a turbine wheel or rotor is not in balance, but I digress.

I add nothing to the conversation, but I was moved to speak. Hmm. My new sig line. It's fitting.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:14 PM   #2198
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Originally Posted by def View Post
Correctomundo.

Remember, as RPM changes, the pistons weight influence changes. Also, as the connecting rods reciprocate, a portion of their mass is able to be offset with crankshaft counter weight. But then, the connecting rod mass changes as its reciprocating mass becomes rotation mass....multicylinder engines can be made much smoother and their crankshafts can be made smaller and these engine can rev higher with fewer forces trying to tear them apart.

Take a look at a 4 row radial P&W or Wright aircraft engine sometime if you want to study the dynamics of force and mass in a piston engine.

An electric motor or a turbine is best. There are no reciprocating parts meaning balance is not a problem.
Connecting rod mass can't change unless someone enters the engine and welds on it or grinds on it. Mass is mass sitting still or rotating.

You have anything data wise to show how the mass is changing?

I have looked at radial aircraft engines. Those sure aren't
comparable to a boxer twin. Seems to me those don't have a 360° firing order or 360° crankshaft but instead use a master rod with a single crankshaft pin.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:13 AM   #2199
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They had this R80 G/S sketch a while ago on Motorrad website, this would be really sweet.

I would be all over this.

Make it about 100lbs lighter than a 1200, air cooled, with a strong subframe.

Instant success.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:19 AM   #2200
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Originally Posted by KMC1 View Post
I would be all over this.

Make it about 100lbs lighter than a 1200, air cooled, with a strong subframe.

Instant success.
Sweet looking bike. I do regret selling my HP2 I'm just hoping their will be another in time.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:41 AM   #2201
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Originally Posted by KMC1 View Post
I would be all over this.

Make it about 100lbs lighter than a 1200, air cooled, with a strong subframe.

Instant success.
Yeah me too and give it a catchy headlight like the other GS's
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:41 AM   #2202
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Oh, and no mambo-jambo one side paralever please. Even better, they should hire this S-Kraft guy, as his sketches always make more sense than BMW's. Sorry BMW.
Rant off.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:55 AM   #2203
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Hope they fix the seat.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #2204
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Originally Posted by kiwiAdventure View Post
Sweet looking bike. I do regret selling my HP2 I'm just hoping their will be another in time.
This actually kept me awake for a while last night... serious....

Picture having about 65 HP with a nice fat torque curve, nice and light (365lbs or so) with the utility of a 1200, scaled down......simple design, easy Maintainence, lots of ground clearance,,,,strong subframe.....oh Man....

This would be the bike I would take to Central and South America.....
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:59 AM   #2205
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Hope they fix the seat.
Lol! I like that seat....great for offroad work.... I hope they would put a real fender on the front tire though....
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