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Old 06-25-2011, 04:12 AM   #331
Jan from Finland
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It seems that BMW is not the only one thinking about water cooled heads at the moment. This is from a patent application filed on May 19, 2011. Guess who?









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Jan from Finland screwed with this post 06-25-2011 at 04:40 AM
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Old 06-25-2011, 05:18 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan from Finland View Post
It seems that BMW is not the only one thinking about water cooled heads at the moment. This is from a patent application filed on May 19, 2011. Guess who?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695463
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gelandestrasse screwed with this post 06-25-2011 at 05:29 AM
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Old 06-25-2011, 05:24 AM   #333
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gelandestrasse, you really don't need to include all pictures in your quote.


So, guys, what brand of the coolant would you use on the new boxer engine?
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Old 06-25-2011, 05:37 AM   #334
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gelandestrasse, you really don't need to include all pictures in your quote.


So, guys, what brand of the coolant would you use on the new boxer engine?
I've removed most of them to reduce the stress on your dial-up connection.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:19 AM   #335
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It may not be 100% but look at what they do with trains to make them more efficient.... diesel engines to power electric wheel motors.
Trains are Diesel-Electric for a reason other than efficiency. An electric motor has linear torque over it's RPM range - so the same pull at 1 rpm as it would be at 1000 rpm. A Diesel engine that would fit in a train would not have the torque requirements at all rpms needed to operate the train. You need an electric motor to get that train moving as no clutch is going to handle that much load!

Container ships are pure Diesel power and some of the bigger ones max out at 4 or 5 rpm - no clutch - the water offers the necessary slip when the engine starts to move.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:34 AM   #336
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You guys think a wet clutch is more durable than dry? Replacing clutches on an R bike is a service department cash cow. I wouldn't look to a manufacturer to change from that winning strategy. Maybe even look for a higher 1st gear to promote more slipping. Even though like you said emoto, it would be possible to design in an access panel which may allow a novice to replace the clutch in a fraction of the time.

You know, I don't know which is more durable. Do you have any thoughts on that? I think a lot has to do with how the bike is ridden. For example, I try to be a very smooth rider. My only surviving wet clutch bike, a Honda 750, has around 75k miles on it on the original clutch. My R12GS is at 48k with the original clutch, but my R1100RS required a clutch at around 40k miles, but I bought it with 4700 miles on it and have no idea how the PO rode it.

It would be sweet to be able to change out a boxer clutch in a quick and easy way. Of course, this new one will have shim valve adjustments and an additional fluid and system to contain it, so you can't win.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:49 AM   #337
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Wet Clutch.... why?

I prefer the dry clutch. Its what cars use, and the BMW design is a very car-like single disc design. (unlike the tamborine like Ducati). The longitudinal orientation of the BMW engine allows this design while most other motorcycle use transverse layouts, so the wet multi-disc clutch is just a better layout for them.

This is a touring bike, not a race bike, so saving a few mm in wheelbase by combining parts isn't critical too me. I like keeping the clutch out of my motor oil....allows the use of normal automotive oils as well.

I see no reason why water cooled heads would make them change the clutch design. They may need a bigger clutch to handle the higher power, but they have that covered with the K bikes already.
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:54 AM   #338
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Since they have DOHC heads, I would have been more curious about the result of valvetronic instead of water cooling. It does awesome things on cars
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:19 PM   #339
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You know, I don't know which is more durable. Do you have any thoughts on that? I think a lot has to do with how the bike is ridden. For example, I try to be a very smooth rider. My only surviving wet clutch bike, a Honda 750, has around 75k miles on it on the original clutch. My R12GS is at 48k with the original clutch, but my R1100RS required a clutch at around 40k miles, but I bought it with 4700 miles on it and have no idea how the PO rode it.

It would be sweet to be able to change out a boxer clutch in a quick and easy way. Of course, this new one will have shim valve adjustments and an additional fluid and system to contain it, so you can't win.
+1 on all depends on how it's ridden. Here's my take on durability. Kawasaki cop bikes go through more clutches than RT cop bikes. Just because a multiplate clutch has a greater engagement range, and clutch slip can be controlled easier, doesn't make the multiplate clutch more 'slip durable' so to speak. I've destroyed sportbike clutches in a few minutes, doing 0 to 200 feet launches. The same thing done on a GS, albeit with 1/2 the RPM and HP, only made the clutch smell real bad. YMMV

One thing's for sure, it will be fun to see the new oil threads and coolant threads. "Will this oil with friction modifier make my clutch slip?" "Now that the gears are scissoring the oil molecules apart, should I change the oil more frequently?"

I predict Amsoil will roll out a new oil and a new coolant just for the wethead boxer!


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Old 06-25-2011, 07:13 PM   #340
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So, guys, what brand of the coolant would you use on the new boxer engine?

Castrol 0-20W mineral until 12,000 mi then switch to full synthetic.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:24 PM   #341
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amsoil mission statement "one born every minute"
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:50 PM   #342
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You bet! The new Amsoil motor oil will not have friction modifiers, but miraculously it will still lubricate. Cracks me up what people come up with, as if oil without friction modifiers is 'high friction' oil or something.


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Old 06-25-2011, 07:54 PM   #343
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Yea, I'm kind of talking out my ass as to amsoil's quality or whatever...
I figure, if it made that big a difference, it would show up as making a big difference.
Showing engine cross sections and all doesn't prove anything. Just shows that things can be different colors etc.. doesn't say one is good or bad.. all those "you tell me which one you want in your engine" type of draw your own conclusion "facts".

I think the castrol logo is pretty. So I use castrol.. If it says "toyota recommends mobil 1" No skin off my nuts to use mobil one or not to.

THough I was fairly convinced when I cut open a fram vs "factory" oil filter. The bypass in aftermarket style filters seemed far too flimsy and shoddy. I buy "oem" filters now. About the same price anyway.
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Old 06-25-2011, 08:07 PM   #344
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When was the last time you turned the crank on the Lucas Oil Stabilizer display? You gotta give it up for Lucas. Those guys are inspired.



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Old 06-26-2011, 12:48 AM   #345
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Ha ha ha.. Yea. Every time I'm in napa. "let me check in the back". Then I'm goin crazy with the Lucas machine. I'm thinking, though an interesting display of .. What is that, non Newtonian liquids or some crap... Doesnt Actually scream, put me in your engine to me. Seems gooey, they can argue protection, I can probably also reasonably argue oil starvation or overworked pump.. Who knows.

Fun toy.. Similar to k&ns little ping pong ball test. Of course the ping pong ball doesn't suffer from blow by with all the dirt that gets through the k&n..
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