The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest - Page 261

EJ_92606 · 12-08-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

.
Any mention yet of objective performance of the LED lights?

I mention that, because LED lights tend to have a poor projection pattern, with too much light spilling out a very wide angle onto road & objects very close [actually uselessly close for riding purposes] to the bike.
This reduces the effectiveness of the illumination of the distant road ~ but yet giving the psychological impression of greater overall brightness.
.

I'm sure it will suck

Key was not in bike so no way to see the light or the dash display, although in a bright show hall, it wouldn't tell you much. From those that saw the light demoed prior to the start of the show, I heard it described as very bright, for what that's worth. RE: LED lights, I have one on my mt bike and do a lot of night riding with it and its every bit as good as a 4x pricier HID light that was generally regarded as the best bike light a few years ago. I have no doubt though that there are poorly made LEDs out there with improperly designed reflectors that provide poor illumination, the same as with HIDs used with the wrong type of reflector.

RichBMW · 12-09-2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

.
Any mention yet of objective performance of the LED lights?

I mention that, because LED lights tend to have a poor projection pattern, with too much light spilling out a very wide angle onto road & objects very close [actually uselessly close for riding purposes] to the bike.
This reduces the effectiveness of the illumination of the distant road ~ but yet giving the psychological impression of greater overall brightness.
.

I have no doubt that it will perform very well. BMW has spent so much time on this new feature, I'm confident they will hit the nail on the head

Midnullarbor · 12-09-2012, 02:56 AM

.
For the LED lights, the twin side-by-side projector lenses look good . . . but overall projection efficiency still may not be all that wonderful.

But the proof of the pudding is in the photometric reports from the engineers . . . and I hope we won't be waiting too long for that.

Some of the "best" car add-on driving lights have 90 watts of LED output, but still have rather ho-hum efficacy, once you check what they actually deliver at 300 feet distance.
.

vtbob · 12-09-2012, 05:11 AM

You are correct with almost all of the LED after market lights/aux lights on the market today.

LEDs are more of a point source of light than halogen, etc so the traditional reflector system does not work well at all for the. LEDs need sophisticated lens design in front of them to focus/manage the light correctly.

Most aftermarket people just buy the LED chip assembly, stick it in a more or less traditional housing/reflector and sell it.
A couple have added some poorly design cheapo lens to help a bit. they can get away with this because < at least in the US, there is essentially no law enforcement of aux light beam pattens. Head lights have clear beam pattern defiitnition to be legal...so the car and motorcycle manufactures must pay close attention

I don't know of any one in the motorcycle industry that has properly design an LED head light system. Looking at the pictures of the new GS, it may be the first....just don't know yet. I hope bmw gets it right

sooner or later some LED aux light producer will take the time and spend the design money to get the aux light beam patterns up to snuff....and make the LED light much better than they are now.

Marki_GSA · 12-09-2012, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnullarbor

.
Any mention yet of objective performance of the LED lights?

I mention that, because LED lights tend to have a poor projection pattern, with too much light spilling out a very wide angle onto road & objects very close [actually uselessly close for riding purposes] to the bike.
This reduces the effectiveness of the illumination of the distant road ~ but yet giving the psychological impression of greater overall brightness.
.

Don't confuse spot/fog lights with a proper led headlight. In Europe anyway the lights will have to focus the same as any other headlight. I imagine the same is true in the states since they have just been approved. By the looks of the low beam light the led is attached to the bar in front and shining backwards onto the reflector that will focus it. The high beam has several led sources that look like mini projectors. Maybe these focus onto different places to fill the road better?

vtbob · 12-09-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marki_GSA

Don't confuse spot/fog lights with a proper led headlight. In Europe anyway the lights will have to focus the same as any other headlight. I imagine the same is true in the states since they have just been approved. By the looks of the low beam light the led is attached to the bar in front and shining backwards onto the reflector that will focus it. The high beam has several led sources that look like mini projectors. Maybe these focus onto different places to fill the road better?

Yep, firing the LED back into a properly define reflector make sense too....the key is to properly desing the LED lens/reflector to make the most of the quite different characteristics of LEDs vs the various incandescent light source.

6USMC6 · 12-09-2012, 08:38 AM

Surefire - makes flashlights that produce in excess of 800 Lumens and they project well enough to identify a man in camouflage at 500 meters - and more. They are rugged enough to withstand the recoil of any automatic weapon made - M2, M240, 25MM canon, etc. The reflectors are designed and set at the factory and are pre-focused. The technology is there.

I recently purchased a set of the new PIAA LED driving Lights and they are both bright and illuminate fairly well. They could be better however. The LED is mounted on a cross bar and is directed into the reflector.

Marki_GSA · 12-09-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6USMC6

Surefire - makes flashlights that produce in excess of 800 Lumens and they project well enough to identify a man in camouflage at 500 meters - and more. They are rugged enough to withstand the recoil of any automatic weapon made - M2, M240, 25MM canon, etc. The reflectors are designed and set at the factory and are pre-focused. The technology is there.

I recently purchased a set of the new PIAA LED driving Lights and they are both bright and illuminate fairly well. They could be better however. The LED is mounted on a cross bar and is directed into the reflector.

Absolutely, there are definitely good LED products out there but unfortunately there are a lot of bad ones too. There is also a lot of cheap ones out there where although the LED is actually quite reliable with a really good output the current regulator is absolute junk and they just don't last very long. You can get a single 3000 lumen Cree for about 5 bucks, it's the regulator that costs the money.

tallguy-09 · 12-09-2012, 04:20 PM

EJ_92606 · 12-09-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallguy-09

Awesome...loving the sound and the two rectangular exhaust outlets!

VerdiBaritone · 12-09-2012, 06:48 PM

just after Thanksgiving.

It was parked among a few other bikes and scooters. November 27th, about 10PM. I could probably look at a map and figure out the address.

I did a double-take when I saw it. The spork was the giveaway.
I didnt think to take a picture with my phone.

Maybe I missed something earlier in the hundreds of pages of posts, but I was very surprised to see at as I did not think they were on the streets yet, even in Europe.

marchyman · 12-09-2012, 07:44 PM

Does anyone know where the accessory socket lives on the GS LC? I looked for one on the bike at the San Mateo show but didn't see it.

EJ_92606 · 12-09-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marchyman

Does anyone know where the accessory socket lives on the GS LC? I looked for one on the bike at the San Mateo show but didn't see it.

There is one up near the windshield adjustment knob.

EJ_92606 · 12-09-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VerdiBaritone

just after Thanksgiving.

It was parked among a few other bikes and scooters. November 27th, about 10PM. I could probably look at a map and figure out the address.

I did a double-take when I saw it. The spork was the giveaway.
I didnt think to take a picture with my phone.

Maybe I missed something earlier in the hundreds of pages of posts, but I was very surprised to see at as I did not think they were on the streets yet, even in Europe.

No picture? But not surprising they would have some test mules out on the road. Was it disguised at all? Rumor is that the WC GS has been tested for one million kilometers...so there are definitely bikes out there.

Montauk · 12-09-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marchyman

Does anyone know where the accessory socket lives on the GS LC? I looked for one on the bike at the San Mateo show but didn't see it.

You'll see in one of my pictures as I post shortly

12-09-2012, 08:38 AM	#3907
6USMC6 R.I.P. Party Boss Joined: Jan 2009 Location: The "Upper" Valley of the Shenandoah. Oddometer: 3,491	Surefire - makes flashlights that produce in excess of 800 Lumens and they project well enough to identify a man in camouflage at 500 meters - and more. They are rugged enough to withstand the recoil of any automatic weapon made - M2, M240, 25MM canon, etc. The reflectors are designed and set at the factory and are pre-focused. The technology is there. I recently purchased a set of the new PIAA LED driving Lights and they are both bright and illuminate fairly well. They could be better however. The LED is mounted on a cross bar and is directed into the reflector. __________________ Mike - "For those who fight for it life has a flavor the protected never know." USMC 65-68 RVN 66-67

12-09-2012, 06:48 PM	#3911
VerdiBaritone Si puo? Si puo? Joined: Jul 2012 Location: New England, mostly. Oddometer: 20	I spotted a new GS on the street in Basel, Switzerland just after Thanksgiving. It was parked among a few other bikes and scooters. November 27th, about 10PM. I could probably look at a map and figure out the address. I did a double-take when I saw it. The spork was the giveaway. I didnt think to take a picture with my phone. Maybe I missed something earlier in the hundreds of pages of posts, but I was very surprised to see at as I did not think they were on the streets yet, even in Europe. __________________ Accelerate. Shift. Repeat. Italian music. German motorcycles.

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12-09-2012, 02:56 AM	#3903
Midnullarbor Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2010 Oddometer: 245	. For the LED lights, the twin side-by-side projector lenses look good . . . but overall projection efficiency still may not be all that wonderful. But the proof of the pudding is in the photometric reports from the engineers . . . and I hope we won't be waiting too long for that. Some of the "best" car add-on driving lights have 90 watts of LED output, but still have rather ho-hum efficacy, once you check what they actually deliver at 300 feet distance. .

12-09-2012, 05:11 AM	#3904
vtbob wanderer Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Western Vermont Oddometer: 417	You are correct with almost all of the LED after market lights/aux lights on the market today. LEDs are more of a point source of light than halogen, etc so the traditional reflector system does not work well at all for the. LEDs need sophisticated lens design in front of them to focus/manage the light correctly. Most aftermarket people just buy the LED chip assembly, stick it in a more or less traditional housing/reflector and sell it. A couple have added some poorly design cheapo lens to help a bit. they can get away with this because < at least in the US, there is essentially no law enforcement of aux light beam pattens. Head lights have clear beam pattern defiitnition to be legal...so the car and motorcycle manufactures must pay close attention I don't know of any one in the motorcycle industry that has properly design an LED head light system. Looking at the pictures of the new GS, it may be the first....just don't know yet. I hope bmw gets it right sooner or later some LED aux light producer will take the time and spend the design money to get the aux light beam patterns up to snuff....and make the LED light much better than they are now.

12-09-2012, 04:20 PM	#3909
tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles Joined: Aug 2009 Location: Vancouver Oddometer: 1,375

12-09-2012, 07:44 PM	#3912
marchyman Talks to cats Joined: Jun 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Oddometer: 5,305	Does anyone know where the accessory socket lives on the GS LC? I looked for one on the bike at the San Mateo show but didn't see it.