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Old 12-13-2012, 09:30 AM   #3991
6USMC6
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Jim -
Just looking at the above print, do you think it would be possible to pull the driveshaft out through the swingarm, grease the spline and then push it back in?

Or would you have to drop the swingarm?
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:39 AM   #3992
EJ_92606
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Don't forget dynamic suspension on the new bike. Not sure about thousands less in price for a camhead. Everything I'm hearing is price should be the same. There are plenty of people stil interested in the camhead and I haven't heard about any big discounting at all. See the survey in another thread where 2/3rds say they would get the camhead vs. Wasser Boxer.

A few more items:

E-gas throttle control/settings rain mode, endure mode, etc
new more rigid chassis
Fresh look
lighter wheels
radial mounted brakes
Multi controller for NAV
Improved windshield design/adjustment/looks
New stouter final drive
No more throttle sync issues
Single spark plug per cylinder
Improved efficiency of vertical flow through
Slipper clutch
Improved gearbox
no alternator belt
longer swing arm for improved traction

Oops, I guess you had some of these listed already.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Difficult question for anybody but you to answer.

Money not a factor? No-one has ridden the 13, but the theoretical advantages have been canvassed thoroughly on this thread. A quick (and not exhaustive) summary:

- More power and torque.

- Engine design suggests smoother running.

- Wet multiplate clutch that should be more useful in slow going and will be much easier to replace.

- Electronic cruise control.

- Longer swingarm by 50mm.

- Redesigned final drive, with no spline to lube immediately behind hard-to-reach clutch.

- More sophisticated ABS and traction control.

- More room behind the cylinders for lower limbs/footing.

- LED running lamp and low beam (and optional high beam)

- Grippier tyre sizes for street carving.

- Revised weight distribution for same.

- Narrower waist around seat-tank junction.

- Better instrument panel.


For the 12:

- no water cooling circuit to worry about.

- no 'all-new' issues to worry about.

- $thousands less.

- Ready now.


Your call.

EJ_92606 screwed with this post 12-13-2012 at 10:55 AM Reason: added more items
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #3993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
No-one has ridden the 13, but the theoretical advantages have been canvassed thoroughly on this thread. A quick (and not exhaustive) summary:....
Maybe not exhaustive, but comprehensive. Nice job.

- Mark
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #3994
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Quote:
No more throttle sync issues
WHAT?
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #3995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto View Post
WHAT?
Electro-motive throttle actuator syncs the throttles on the fly...put your twinmax on ebay and get on the wait list
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:44 PM   #3996
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There was mention of something along the lines of "automated decompressors" during startup. Can anyone point me to that? Going to have to float a valve for that to happen, and I hadn't seen that anywhere.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac57 View Post
There was mention of something along the lines of "automated decompressors" during startup. Can anyone point me to that? Going to have to float a valve for that to happen, and I hadn't seen that anywhere.
I found this in the BMW press release. No sure if it answers your question or not. You can read more on page 177 of this thread

As before, the two respective camshafts are driven by a chain running in the shaft behind the cylinders (on the right-hand side of the engine from the counterbalance shaft and on the left from the crankshaft). The timing chain drives an intermediate shaft between the intake and exhaust camshaft and it is from here that power is transmitted to the camshafts via spur gear pairs. At each exhaust camshaft there is an centrifugal-force-driven decompression facility which facilitates the start-up process. This makes it possible to save weight in the starter motor and battery.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:52 PM   #3998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Hmm, maybe I was wrong about that.




I'm sure others will chime in.

Wow, lots of helical gears in those cases.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:32 PM   #3999
twray
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Seems unusual for one cylinder cam chain to run off the crankshaft and the other running off the counterbalance shaft. Seems some valve timing issues could result in gear wear from the counterbalance shaft and crankshaft relationship....

twray screwed with this post 12-14-2012 at 05:57 AM
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:22 PM   #4000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Electro-motive throttle actuator syncs the throttles on the fly...put your twinmax on ebay and get on the wait list
There's no TB sync maintenance on the S1000RR and it's an inline-four. Perhaps the same technology.

- Mark
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:30 PM   #4001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
There's no TB sync maintenance on the S1000RR and it's an inline-four. Perhaps the same technology.

- Mark
I think most engine architectures share a common throttle body so there is nothing to sync...the nature of a boxer engine makes sharing a throttle body problematical. Although a beast like the S1000RR probably has individual throttle bodies for each cylinder.

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Old 12-13-2012, 11:23 PM   #4002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
I think most engine architectures share a common throttle body so there is nothing to sync...the nature of a boxer engine makes sharing a throttle body problematical. Although a beast like the S1000RR probably has individual throttle bodies for each cylinder.
A few of the newer non-single bikes with an emphasis on efficiency do use a single TB (the NC700X comes immediately to mind) but I think it is uncommon.

The S1000RR definitely has individual TB's, but I've never seen anything definitive about why they don't require any synchronization. It is definitely drive-by-wire, so each TB is controlled by a servo but I would still think there would need to be some calibration to make sure all the servos and position sensors are properly synchronized. It may be one of those things where BMW feels that once set at the factory, it should never go out of synchronization. I certainly know of many bikes that have servo TB's and still have conventional air bleed screws and require periodic synchronization by balancing manifold vacuum with the bleed screws. Short of having a MP sensor that measures vacuum in each inlet tract, I don't know of any way for the system to adjust itself based on running conditions.

- Mark
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:42 PM   #4003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
A few of the newer non-single bikes with an emphasis on efficiency do use a single TB (the NC700X comes immediately to mind) but I think it is uncommon.

The S1000RR definitely has individual TB's, but I've never seen anything definitive about why they don't require any synchronization. It is definitely drive-by-wire, so each TB is controlled by a servo but I would still think there would need to be some calibration to make sure all the servos and position sensors are properly synchronized. It may be one of those things where BMW feels that once set at the factory, it should never go out of synchronization. I certainly know of many bikes that have servo TB's and still have conventional air bleed screws and require periodic synchronization by balancing manifold vacuum with the bleed screws. Short of having a MP sensor that measures vacuum in each inlet tract, I don't know of any way for the system to adjust itself based on running conditions.

- Mark
I read something about the new GS having something that measures vacuum and then makes adjustments constantly.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:12 AM   #4004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Difficult question for anybody but you to answer.

Money not a factor? No-one has ridden the 13, but the theoretical advantages have been canvassed thoroughly on this thread. A quick (and not exhaustive) summary:

- More power and torque.

- Engine design suggests smoother running.

- Wet multiplate clutch that should be more useful in slow going and will be much easier to replace.

- Electronic cruise control.

- Longer swingarm by 50mm.

- Redesigned final drive, with no spline to lube immediately behind hard-to-reach clutch.

- More sophisticated ABS and traction control.

- More room behind the cylinders for lower limbs/footing.

- LED running lamp and low beam (and optional high beam)

- Grippier tyre sizes for street carving.

- Revised weight distribution for same.

- Narrower waist around seat-tank junction.

- Better instrument panel.


For the 12:

- no water cooling circuit to worry about.

- no 'all-new' issues to worry about.

- $thousands less.

- Ready now.


Your call.
Very good list, I big factor is a Yamaha S10 is 13K, and I plan on $3500 in mods out of the box so it will be 16.5 and the value will drop pretty fast. 2012 BMW is 17K and the question is can I live with it mostly stock and add about 1K in mods? A 2013 set up the same will be 19.5K estimated and the aftermarket will not have a pile of items so could I might have to live with 1K in Mods. Reviewing used bike selling prices the BMW does not drop as fast as the S10 so in 5 years the diff in total cost may be very small. I was going with a 1200 gs in 2009 and picked up a 2 year old KTM 990 Adventure and it is a great bike, just find it is great off road and good on the road and my needs are great on the road and ok off road.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:47 AM   #4005
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The current boxers don't require a sync on the idle circuit (idle servo) its only the mechanical cable part that you can adjust part throttle. I don't know if the new drive by wire uses a separate idle, main servo or if it's just one but however they do it now on the idle could be used on the new system.
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