The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

[PirateJohn]

Originally Posted by Marki_GSA

Climate change bahhhh joking.
Yes fuel injection and electronic ignition is what actually made vehicles reliable over the long term. Sure points are cheap but they screw up all the time and it won't start. FI has brought back drivability that you could never get with the same power/tune. The last GS's to have carbs had about half the power. To say electronics on a bike is of no benefit is just ridiculous.

Amen.

In the Porsche world I was recently reminded of how poor the day to day drivability was of the 1969-era Porsche 911's. Today's cars must have something like triple the horsepower and your trophy wife can drive them to go shopping. Or drive them down to the yacht club when she meets with her young boyfriend ;)


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[TuonoBiker]

Originally Posted by PirateJohn

Amen.

In the Porsche world I was recently reminded of how poor the day to day drivability was of the 1969-era Porsche 911's. Today's cars must have something like triple the horsepower and your trophy wife can drive them to go shopping. Or drive them down to the yacht club when she meets with her young boyfriend ;)


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+1

While I wasn't around in the 60's I can't imagine the bikes of the 60's and 70's being reliable enough to trek thousands of miles at a time. Hey, maybe they were...I am still all for the electronic stuff on a bike....sure, my TPM might blow someday but it isn't going to let me sit. And if my uber expensive to repair ESA dies, well, it still isn't something to let me stranded.

At the end of the day, if these things are too expensive or too glitchy for you to entertain thoughts of having on a motorcycle, then don't buy them or don't stray off the super-slab highway. Reality is, you better get used to technology and just embrace the inevitability.....or slink into the cracks of old curmudgeon-ness.

[RichBMW]

Originally Posted by Rauven

Two more reviews:

http://www.bikescatalog.com/test-bmw...air-water.html

As for the first one, is it just me, or they google translated it from somewhere ?

That has to be the worst English I've ever read. I gave up after the second paragraph

[khale]

Originally Posted by RichBMW

That has to be the worst English I've ever read. I gave up after the second paragraph

Same. It's gobbledygook

[tagesk]

Originally Posted by Gros Buck

But if you have ABS on your car, chances are that it does not work anymore at 100K miles ... .

Paul Jr

Sir,
Where were your cars designed and built?
Not by BMW in Europe, I guess. I have more miles than that on my bike, with no problems what so ever.
The bike, by the way, was designed and built by BMW in Europe..

ABS not lasting more than 100K miles - ignorant or stupid.

[TaSK]

[JoeDuck]

Originally Posted by Gros Buck

... But if you have ABS on your car, chances are that it does not work anymore at 100K miles ...

Odd, my 2000 328i had over 120,000 miles on the odometer when I sold it. ABS system never had an issue. The only real problem was the @#$@#$ window lifts which thankfully I don't have to worry about on a motorcycle, unless they use one for the RTs screen.

[marchyman]

Originally Posted by TuonoBiker

While I wasn't around in the 60's I can't imagine the bikes of the 60's and 70's being reliable enough to trek thousands of miles at a time.

Funny you should mention that. That's where the myth of BMW reliability started. A /2 built in the 60s could easily do 50 - 100K miles. That wasn't true of most of the british and japanese bikes of the time where they were often ready for the junk pile at 20K miles.

Today there is no real difference between BMW and any other bike built. All have strengths and weaknesses. All will take you more miles than most will put on the bike before they replace it for something new. Most replacements will be because of "I want" not "I need".

If I like the new bike after a test ride I'll probably order one. Not because I need it. My '05 only has 75K miles on the odo; it is still running strong.

[cug]

Originally Posted by Gros Buck

But if you have ABS on your car, chances are that it does not work anymore at 100K miles ... Sensor this, sensor that, bla bla bla.

Unless you can back that with real numbers from actual facts and not your gut feeling about electronics I call BS. I have owned several cars with more than 100k miles and never ever had trouble with ABS. One of the most reliable systems I have had in car. Hell, windshield wiper motors were failing more often ...

Originally Posted by Gros Buck

Besides fuel injection, I do not see any real benefit that electronics have brought to a 1200GS in the last decade. It brought just problems.

Again, I think that's not true. Can you point out actual electronic problems you're referring to?

I know about a lot of small and large issues here and there with BMWs and other manufacturers and pretty much all of them are actually mechanical (or chemical (comical?) in the case of the fuel strip).

So, what problems have you seen with the electronic parts of more sophisticated systems?

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by cug

Unless you can back that with real numbers from actual facts and not your gut feeling about electronics I call BS. I have owned several cars with more than 100k miles and never ever had trouble with ABS. One of the most reliable systems I have had in car. Hell, windshield wiper motors were failing more often ...



Again, I think that's not true. Can you point out actual electronic problems you're referring to?

I know about a lot of small and large issues here and there with BMWs and other manufacturers and pretty much all of them are actually mechanical (or chemical (comical?) in the case of the fuel strip).

So, what problems have you seen with the electronic parts of more sophisticated systems?

He misses his kick starter

[TuonoBiker]

Originally Posted by marchyman

Funny you should mention that. That's where the myth of BMW reliability started. A /2 built in the 60s could easily do 50 - 100K miles. That wasn't true of most of the british and japanese bikes of the time where they were often ready for the junk pile at 20K miles.

Today there is no real difference between BMW and any other bike built. All have strengths and weaknesses. All will take you more miles than most will put on the bike before they replace it for something new. Most replacements will be because of "I want" not "I need".

If I like the new bike after a test ride I'll probably order one. Not because I need it. My '05 only has 75K miles on the odo; it is still running strong.

Excellent point - and I should realize that after looking over a beautiful 1961 BMW at my dealer a couple weeks ago...they did a full restore job on it and it runs like new. Even cooler is the fact the parts are still available.

I agree with the lack of differences between BMW and everyone else in this regard. The design and electronic engineering that goes into an ECU on a BMW is probably no different than my old Aprilia...might even be from the same manufacturer like Siemens or Bosch or Magnetti Marelli. The differences begin at the application level...hardware level? Very similar.

Does make you wonder if BMW has higher standards when it comes to noise, vib, harshness...especially for the enduro class machines.

[erkmania]

Originally Posted by Thinc2

Motorrad reports that their long term test Ducati has 50K KM's on the clutch with no issues. Ducati has been sourcing this clutch for the last three years from Japanese OEM FCC - this is the exact clutch that is in the new GS.

From here for more of the article in German.

Thank you.

I knew an inmate would turn my hearsay into fact.

[I GS 1]

Originally Posted by khale

First lay down, perhaps? Ouch! Hope the bike was ok!

This concept of water rather than air/oil cooling a GS seems to be really taking off

[vtbob]

Originally Posted by Voluhzia

Why would one need ABS on their car, it already has 4 wheels


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If you drive a car aggressively, or in challenging condition you would quickly see why ABS is a real benefit for cars and pickups. to my knowledge...I believe all new cars and pickup come with some type of abs. some are simple abs and others are quite sophisticated stability control.


the abs on my bike kept me from locking my front wheel on a tar snake...which without it would have put me down in a 6 lane intersection. I will never buy a new bike without ABS

[oalvarez]

Originally Posted by I GS 1

This concept of water rather than air/oil cooling a GS seems to be really taking off

Looks like almost like a trans-Atlantic water crossing....nice!

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by I GS 1

This concept of water rather than air/oil cooling a GS seems to be really taking off

Jim