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Old 02-01-2013, 09:32 AM   #4636
khale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
My point is that everyone is jumping on the fact that 2 journo's had a tankslapper on the new model, when people have had tankslappers on the old one. This is nothing new, and certainly isn't a manufacturing error. If you ride too fast off road, and hit a dip, or large stone at speed, you're going to have a problem. Regardless of the bike.
+1 agree.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:34 AM   #4637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Rich, that was rider error, not the bike. It was well discussed in that thread.

Jim
And who's to say that 2 journo's mishaps wasn't rider error? They're hardly going to admit that, as they are "professionals" We've heard how they thrash the hell out of these bikes on press releases, one journo has even said that he won't go on organised press launches as they are too dangerous because everyone wants a race, so I'm not buying into all the conspiracy that the bike has a fault.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:38 AM   #4638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
My point is that everyone is jumping on the fact that 2 journo's had a tankslapper on the new model, when people have had tankslappers on the old one. This is nothing new, and certainly isn't a manufacturing error. If you ride too fast off road, and hit a dip, or large stone at speed, you're going to have a problem. Regardless of the bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khale View Post
+1 agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
And who's to say that 2 journo's mishaps wasn't rider error? They're hardly going to admit that, as they are "professionals" We've heard how they thrash the hell out of these bikes on press releases, one journo has even said that he won't go on organised press launches as they are too dangerous because everyone wants a race, so I'm not buying into all the conspiracy that the bike has a fault.
i agree with the sentiment/opinions voiced above even if it's contrary to anything i wrote....at the same time, it's odd that this problem hasn't been widely written about in reviews in years past, or at the very least, i haven't read such.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:51 AM   #4639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
And who's to say that 2 journo's mishaps wasn't rider error? They're hardly going to admit that, as they are "professionals" We've heard how they thrash the hell out of these bikes on press releases, one journo has even said that he won't go on organised press launches as they are too dangerous because everyone wants a race, so I'm not buying into all the conspiracy that the bike has a fault.
I don't disagree with that. People on thos junkets often ride above their ability or good common sense. I'll wait for more experience and more rides.

Jim
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:14 AM   #4640
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What Issue

OK here is my take on the headshake issue:
What issue? I come from a dirt bike world going to the street bike world and have spent many years with bikes that could, at speed, wake you up. I have been riding and racing dirt bikes since 1973 so that is a lot of different makes and models that I have personally experienced headshake on. Headshake is a normal occurrence in dirt bike riding. In fact if you go to any enduro or cross country race you will find all of the A and most of the B riders have steering dampers, hell even GP bikes have steering dampers, and yes I know GP bikes are not dirt bikes. I will grant you that most of the modern motorcycles that are ridden at speed in the dirt have a steering damper only as a safety device because no one enjoys headshake. I know I ran a steering damper on my HP2 Enduro which did have headshake, and still do on my WR450 which has never shaken its head at me in anger.

In my experience headshake can come from chassis design, fork flex (fork flex is mostly felt in cornering so if it was an issue you would feel it on the road also) or most often headshake is from suspension setup. Hell you can even get it from crappy tires like my CVO Ultra HD which got a crazy headshake in sweeping corners above 80mph until I changed out the tires, which changed the whole bike. In my experience if I were to take a WAG on the cause of the WC GS headshake without riding it, I would guess the headshake is more from suspension than from thin fork legs (remember the HP2 had “upside down forks” and still got headshake). That said I would be interested in what the “settings” were being used the 3 people who experienced the headshake. Was the bike in enduro/hard or road/soft or Dynamic/normal? I could go on and on typing combinations of possible suspension settings but I think you get my point. So if I had to “blame” something (which is stupid without personally riding the beast) I would point my old arthritic finger of blame at rider error (wrong settings for the conditions) before I wagged (yes that is a PUN) it at the bike, because of the years of testing by BMW using, I assume riders who were accustomed to setting the settings for the conditions did not experience it. I based my assumption or WAG on reports that BMW was surprised by the headshake experienced by a few of the “guest test riders”. If it is a damping issue I would assume BMW could solve it with a software upgrade. Maybe I assume too much. I don’t even know if you can put a steering damper on a bike with a telelever front end… haven’t owned one yet but am number three to buy one at my local dealer!

OK back to lurking. Please remember I am like Shultz “I know nothing, I saw nothing” and the previous was just a rambling WAG!
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #4641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
http://canadamotoguide.com/2013/01/2...h-bmw-r1200gs/

Check the comments. As Costas was one of the people that noticed the front fork "issue", I asked for details and he answered. Might be useful to this new (unwelcome) puzzle.
I think it sounds like a steering damper would be in order. I hope but doubt BMW has provisions for a damper mount. Maybe on the adventure.

Second time I have heard the adventure model will be out in the fall. Or is that out to the press in the fall and available a year from spring? More likely.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:31 AM   #4642
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Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Some indirect news. Here is the tire that most 2013 GS will have installed from the factory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPU7VL55oSE

It is very on-road biased (like 90/10), but it might be of interest to some (like to me ) that within the year they will also make a new version called "Anakee Wild", already homologated for GS, that will be more off-road biased than Anakee III. Let see where this is positioned in the range, because for big GS we have many 90/10, 85/15 and 20/80 tires, but nothing closer to 60/40 (like maybe Metzeler Enduro 3) that some of us may need and is available for the dimensions of smaller GSes.
Where did you hear that most GS' will get this tire? All the demo bikes at the rollout seemed to have Metzelers? I recall that BMW worked with four tire manufacturers on the new tire size/design...so my guess is they committed to buy from all four, but don't really know.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:34 AM   #4643
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RichBMW, your video example of a 12GS Adventure having a tankslapper is not all the same thing as what the journalists reported on the new bike intro. In that video example, those guys were absolutely flying. You can't see the speedo, but they sure were hauling a$$.

So far we have three different publications mentioning the issue. Motorcycle.com, Canada Moto Guide, and Bike Magazine. Motorcycle.com reported standing up cruising at 45mph on a smooth dirt road in a straight line and hitting some washboard. These bikes were running small tailpacks with no luggage. In other words, not loaded down. At which point the bars became a blur. Bike Mag's incident broke the steering stops. This is not normal behavior for any 1150/1200 GS. Over the years, I have read many ride reports from various journalists without them ever mentioning the type of unstable behavior that now 3 journalists have mentioned from the new bike intro. Something went amiss there.

I'm going to go out on a limb and state that I believe there is nothing inherently wrong with the new GS. Reports show it's on road high speed handling to be more stable and planted than the old bike ever was. You gotta figure design is solid. To me and others here, it hints at an issue with the new dynamic suspension. Could be as easy as a software update away from being corrected.

The full bike tests from the major magazines will soon enough let us know what's up.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:36 AM   #4644
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Alpha Wolfman,

There are a number of damper solutions on the outgoing 1200's. I agree with you that they are a great addiction (edit, addition). I run a Scott's on my Adventure. It would be great though if BMW would simplify after market damper installation by making provisions for the connections on the bike.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:41 AM   #4645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
My point is that everyone is jumping on the fact that 2 journo's had a tankslapper on the new model, when people have had tankslappers on the old one. This is nothing new, and certainly isn't a manufacturing error. If you ride too fast off road, and hit a dip, or large stone at speed, you're going to have a problem. Regardless of the bike.
This may be so....if true, then we should see the same comments in reviews of previews GS' and competitor models. I assume the journalists mentioned it because it was not common to other bikes.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:44 AM   #4646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Wolfman View Post
Maybe I assume too much. I don’t even know if you can put a steering damper on a bike with a telelever front end… haven’t owned one yet but am number three to buy one at my local dealer!
along the lines of what i wrote.....if the riders experienced headshake, then why not adjust the damping settings (it's all push button on the ESA bikes) and report the results after having done so? one would assume that they would have done so, but maybe they're not as experienced as one might think. changing the damping/preload (at the very least knowing what setting i was in) would have been one of the first things that i would have changed, you'd think that they would have done the same.

as for a steering damper, you can outfit them to the current line of GS bikes, i'm sure the same would be true for the new bikes (fork to frame).
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #4647
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Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
This may be so....if true, then we should see the same comments in reviews of previews GS' and competitor models. I assume the journalists mentioned it because it was not common to other bikes.
completely agree, and i believe i wrote the same.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #4648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
This may be so....if true, then we should see the same comments in reviews of previews GS' and competitor models. I assume the journalists mentioned it because it was not common to other bikes.
Only if they've been tested down the same roads I'd be inclined to believe that BMW know what they are doing, what with all the testing, rather than a couple of journo's who were out to see how fast they could get the bikes to go. Do you really believe that a bike that has done over a million test km's and been in development for 5 years would have a such an issue? I certainly don't.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #4649
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Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
Do you really believe that a bike that has done over a million test km's and been in development for 5 years would have a such an issue? I certainly don't.
I believe that we're all asking or wondering the same thing, but who's to say that BMW is right? After all, aren't these the same people who designed the final drive (amongst other parts that have experienced failure) on the last few series of GS bikes?
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #4650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I know what a fork brace is, but am having trouble picturing where to put it on a Telelever.

Jim
You don't. You put it on the two stanchion tubes coming down from the handlebar Triple T.
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