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Old 02-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #4666
EJ_92606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jltrd View Post
Gee, I guess I'm missing something. All I get from the reviews is the new GS is going to be a great road/touring bike (which is what I want) and that I'll have to restrain myself from riding standing up doing 45mph+ over washboard terrain. What's the problem? :

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Are you joking? It's an adventure bike...if it can't go 45mph on a fireroad there is a problem.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:08 PM   #4667
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[QUOTE=NLS;20627824]Very good discussion. We are all guessing though.

I choose to believe that the ratio 2 to 20 (or 3 to 20) is not normal among experienced moto mag testers.


Agreed we are all guessing: Wild A** Guess (WAG) which is fun but UN-productive!

I Choose to believe that two of the testers forgot or screwed up changing the settings when the conditions changed, and that the settings make a huge difference to the motorcycle (as reported about the settings differences). I wouldn't want to take a bike with high-speed rebound settings or spring rates set for the street down a dirt road at speed. It makes complete sense to me how this could happen.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:15 PM   #4668
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[QUOTE=Alpha Wolfman;20628686]
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Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Very good discussion. We are all guessing though.

I choose to believe that the ratio 2 to 20 (or 3 to 20) is not normal among experienced moto mag testers.


Agreed we are all guessing: Wild A** Guess (WAG) which is fun but UN-productive!

I Choose to believe that two of the testers forgot or screwed up changing the settings when the conditions changed, and that the settings make a huge difference to the motorcycle (as reported about the settings differences). I wouldn't want to take a bike with high-speed rebound settings or spring rates set for the street down a dirt road at speed. It makes complete sense to me how this could happen.
You're going to have to explain the ratio comment...3/20 is fact and may go higher as we hear more...it certainly is not normal and that's why we're discussing it.

Regarding the rider mistaking the settings, I would have to guess that stopping to check the suspension settings after you just crapped your shorts because the fork stops broke off during a violent tank slapper would be the first thing you would do, no? These riders aren't idiots.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #4669
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Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Are you joking? It's an adventure bike...if it can't go 45mph on a fireroad there is a problem.
Not joking and I didn't say "fireroad". Said "standing up doing 45+ on washboard road". If that's what you need this may not be the motorcycle for you. Not saying you are wrong its just that people need to identify what they want out of a motorcycle and pick accordingly. If the GS is not good for fast riding on washboard surfaces then maybe something with a 21 inch front wheel and traditional forks would fit the bill? For me the new GS sounds excellent for the way I would use it..

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:53 PM   #4670
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Perhaps some delivery news instead of fork chat?

My dealer received an email from BMW yesterday 01/31/13 stating that units will be shipped to New Jersey later this month which should put the bikes in North San Diego by later this month or first week in March. They were told they would be getting four units: a demo, a "low" and two "normals". No word yet on price, options or colors although they assume that they'll be fully loaded. I get the first one as long as it's red, or gray, or ???
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #4671
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Originally Posted by Jltrd View Post
Not joking and I didn't say "fireroad". Said "standing up doing 45+ on washboard road". If that's what you need this may not be the motorcycle for you. Not saying you are wrong its just that people need to identify what they want out of a motorcycle and pick accordingly. If the GS is not good for fast riding on washboard surfaces then maybe something with a 21 inch front wheel and traditional forks would fit the bill? For me the new GS sounds excellent for the way I would use it..

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Not sure what a 'washboard road' is, but around here in the West and in Alaska, virtually every dirt road/Fire road I've been on has certain sections of washboard. If you're buying the GS solely for the pavement, that's fine, but it is a Dual Sport, Adventure bike so don't be surprised that some of us are unhappy about the recent reports of issues in the dirt.

FYI, here is the quote you are referring to from Motorcycle.com

However, the GS did disappoint me during a casual ride down an open dirt road. I was standing up to get cool air through my riding gear, traveling about 45 mph, when I encountered a washboard section. In an instant and with seemingly no provocation, the bike went into a wild tankslapper that threatened to throw me from the bike. It was a very panicked second before the steering regained its composure.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #4672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Wolfman View Post

Regarding the rider mistaking the settings, I would have to guess that stopping to check the suspension settings after you just crapped your shorts because the fork stops broke off during a violent tank slapper would be the first thing you would do, no? These riders aren't idiots.
Well, I tend to agree with the riders forgetfulness and lack of familiarity.

The bike I run has a soft map and a sports map. Guess what percentage of reviews did performance testing on the soft map (default) against other bikes on the normal setting. That was a test not a press release. So not reading the manual seems to be rather common.

Now having said that, certain manufacturers seemed to have learned years ago that everything should default to "safe" not exciting. Then when the rider gets to know the bike they can then go for what they want once they are more familiar with the bike.

Unfortunately that means the average "test rider" gets a safe bike to test not an exciting bike.

You see the dilemma?

On the other hand, A bike with that meany years development should not be doing what the reviewers experienced.
If you want an "all road" bike that's what you should be developing, not a nervously setup street bike that pretends otherwise for fashions sake.

Maybe the production frames from Thialand/Brazil/China, or where ever they come from these days, do not match the "pre production" hand built frames.
Time will tell I suppose. But really who wants to run around off road with yet another little thing in the back of their head.
BMW needs to be straight about it and needs to come up with something if needed. And if it means adding 1Kg and going back to thicker "not forks" then big woop. It's a 1200cc bike not a scooter.

We will see once the initial "reality distortion field" subsides a bit.

If the bike does turn out to have "Shopping trolly tendencies" I won't go near it. Too many Km of washboards where I live.
If I wanted to do "just roads" I would get an RT instead.

Otherwise it sounds like a good improvement.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:39 PM   #4673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Not sure what a 'washboard road' is, but around here in the West and in Alaska, virtually every dirt road/Fire road I've been on has certain sections of washboard. If you're buying the GS solely for the pavement, that's fine, but it is a Dual Sport, Adventure bike so don't be surprised that some of us are unhappy about the recent reports of issues in the dirt.

FYI, here is the quote you are referring to from Motorcycle.com

However, the GS did disappoint me during a casual ride down an open dirt road. I was standing up to get cool air through my riding gear, traveling about 45 mph, when I encountered a washboard section. In an instant and with seemingly no provocation, the bike went into a wild tankslapper that threatened to throw me from the bike. It was a very panicked second before the steering regained its composure.
Come on, everyone knows a "washboard road" is one where the bumps are 2 inches high, spaced 1.75 inches apart, and go on for at least .25 miles. Before someone says that's not true the bumps are.... I'm just kidding.

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Old 02-01-2013, 04:43 PM   #4674
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Given that it's a new suspension system that BMW's very proud of, I would expect that it spent quite a bit of time explaining its functions and making sure that the journalists understood them. And they are veteran testers already familiar with ESA so it seems likely that they'd forget to hit the enduro setting once on unsealed roads.

That said, even if the wrong setting was selected, a tank slapper shouldn't be the result. Maybe some jarring or wallowing, but not a tank slapper.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #4675
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I believe one of the features of the Dynamic Suspension is that no matter how you have the settings it will adapt to conditions on the road. If you have read about the Skyhook suspension on the new Duc Multi (which is also made by Sachs), the testers were amazed on how no matter what mode you had the bike set at, it would automatically adapt. Basically idiot proof.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:08 PM   #4676
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At this point the reviews are what they are. We have two independent sources writing about head shake I believe for one and a tank slapper for the other. There are many things that can cause head shake/slappers, tires, tire pressure, road surface, rider error, bike malfunction, maybe a black cat! At this point I don't think there is enough evidence one way or the other to determine what happened. That is the inherent problem with a 4 sentence description from the writer. They just didn't provide enough information to really come to any conclusion especially when there were 20+ positive reports without mention of this. Then we throw the Ash incident into this and now it becomes even more muddled. Everyones opinions are just that. I find it amusing how speculation of fork diameter has already been mentioned. How can you make that conclusion? Where you involved with the design team and testing of different diameter forks and materials or maybe a metallurgical expert? I can say that I would guess BMW launched this motorcycle with the intention of it being ready to go. Anything less would be a fatal mistake since it is their marquee motorcycle. I would also guess BMW is gathering as much info as they can at this point about the crash and the apparent head shake issue to see if it is a problem that needs to be dealt with or just a series of coincidences and explainable happenings. I'm sure they are taking everything serious since this has or is a problem they didn't foresee and most likely wouldn't wish on anyone and yes I'm sure risk mitigation is involved because that is the litigious nature of society and this slows down the flow of timely information to the masses while they cover their backsides. If BMW suspects a major issue that could have life or death consequences they wouldn't release the bike to the public unless they want to go out of business. In time questions will be answered until then everything is nothing but guessing.


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Old 02-01-2013, 06:20 PM   #4677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Where did you hear that most GS' will get this tire? All the demo bikes at the rollout seemed to have Metzelers? I recall that BMW worked with four tire manufacturers on the new tire size/design...so my guess is they committed to buy from all four, but don't really know.
I think I may have seen Anake III on the launch bikes.

At the Motorcycle show here in Los Angeles, I was told by BMW rep that dealer would know about the tire when they open the crate. There is no way of knowing which tire will be bike have before hand.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:39 PM   #4678
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Originally Posted by Motard_Menace View Post
At this point the reviews are what they are. We have two independent sources writing about head shake I believe for one and a tank slapper for the other. There are many things that can cause head shake/slappers, tires, tire pressure, road surface, rider error, bike malfunction, maybe a black cat!
This is all true, but I can't remember a press launch where, 1 person went down badly, a tank slapper occurred and two other people mentioned the wobbles.

Usually it's just glowing praise and a few people complaining about it not having 200HP more than the last model.

But you are right, coincidence and rarity aside we don't know, but this is a forum so expect 1000 speculation posts before and 1000 rebuff posts after if the facts are not liked by people.

The whole FD failure thing is just a constant back and forth for what? six years, Problem --> excuse ----> No there isn't a problem --> yes there is...Repeat.

Anyway I heard BMW has a new corporate jingle for the new bike....

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Old 02-01-2013, 06:43 PM   #4679
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Does anyone have a discount code for the headshake worry beads from DoltRider? TIA, just planing ahead
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #4680
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http://www.motociclismo.it/bmw-r-120...oad-moto-53973

Heck, Google translate does such a fantastic job, there is no need to correct anything

"OFF-ROAD
Inviting dirt that is lost on the horizon interspersed with a short course enduro very technical: the GS is certainly not the only one who really deserves to be called maxienduro instead of crossover . Especially now thanks to specialized riding mode Enduro pro . 's unique juncture where the GS is in difficulty are small undulations in rapid succession , perhaps due to the reduced suspension travel and accomplice probably the stiffening of the frame at the front, the Telelever breaks down on bumpy at speeds between 120 and 150 km / h, and the front tire hard copy to the ground by returning some sbacchettata steering . The fault of the motorcycle or those who, like us, you throw on the ground speed "dakariane"?

Nobody is perfect. Neither the pilot nor the bike for this 2013 has all it takes to beat the market again."
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