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Old 02-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #4906
oalvarez
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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Well, back with another tedious post. I can barely believe the level of resistance to merely discussing this question of the lurking tankslapper. Nobody here even owns one of these things, and almost nobody has ridden one. Why defend it?

I could understand if a couple of incognito BMW salesmen wanted to hose down the panic, and it is an open forum so why not. For everyone else though, why would it not be a good conversation?

For the record, I am not on a crusade against the new GS. No way. It is a very interesting bike. Dynamically, it will be the best GS yet. I like little things like the full analogue dials, and big things such as the electronic cruise control. It is a class effort.


While I remain besotted with my Duc, what I need is a two-up sport/adventure tourer that can handle big miles. The new GS is a very obvious candidate, and perhaps the front-runner.

All information is good, IMO.

So on the headshake question, I am interested only in getting a clear picture of what has been reported and how significant it might be.

The suggestion that five years of testing must have ironed out every possible flaw is just silly, IMO. For reasons others have given already.

But let us grant this, and assume that the bike is flawless. What then?

We can conclude only that the two major incidents (Bike and motorcycle.com) and two minor manifestations (canadamotoguide and motociclismo) were the journos' fault.

Don't know about you, but I don't find that comforting.

OTOH, it is not like the sky is falling. The bike will still be good. It might need a steering damper. It might need a remap of the dynamic suspension. It might just need a bit of awareness and preparedness, or to be kept out of the firmest Enduro Pro baseline option over washboard.

Or it might need none of these things. We may have more of an idea when ShawnWorks posts in ride reports.

Either way, I don't see how any humans or animals are harmed by talking about it. (Except for BMW salesmen and, of course, their starving families. )
I'm with ya....and will add that conversing and wanting to learn about the subject is a lot more interesting to me than what color and option package everyone is going choose.

Fwiw, my first choice is white...EJ, what's yours?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #4907
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The dealership had three of them about a month and a half ago as an advertisement agency was doing a photo shoot here in AZ for print ad purposes. That dealership now tells me that they are due to receive four bikes (one demo and three for sale, one of which is apparently a low suspension bike) at the end of Feburary. I will believe it when I see it. I had expected end of March but they say the bikes are on the east coast of the US now and due to be shipped shortly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonopah
I have one on order here in Arizona and yesterday was told to expect delivery at the end of February.
You're gonna be the first one here to have the new toy ?
Keep us, who still are in the dark ages, informed
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:54 AM   #4908
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Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
I'm with ya....and will add that conversing and wanting to learn about the subject is a lot more interesting to me than what color and option package everyone is going choose.
You mean throwing out more and more speculation, inaccurate by their very nature, all the uninformed ranting and trying to read crap into things that aren't very clear, plus the completely useless "it does shake vs. it does not shake" blah blah is interesting to you?

You lost me somewhere after the first two posts about it ... before there are any official infos about Kevin Ash's accident and before we have bikes in owners hands that actually ride it normally (whatever that means), there is absolutely no way a useful discussion can happen without going downhill from the second post on.

Personally, I don't give a lot about what the journalists say. I've seen a group of them "testing" bikes in the Alps over 10 years ago when I was on a two week trip there, they were in the same hotel for a couple days - I wouldn't have been surprised if half of them hadn't returned alive and healthy from that trip. They were riding like complete idiots (to avoid harsher words), risking their own, their peers, and other motorists health and life.

After what I saw there I never gave a second thought about any "handling issues" or whatever else they dug up on a bike - it's completely useless information for me and probably 99.99% of the riding community.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #4909
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^ Tonopah, sounds as though we're all receiving the same (dealer) notice here in the western region. Should be a couple more weeks before my dealership sees theirs.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:36 AM   #4910
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Originally Posted by GB View Post
Please don't stifle the discussion... in 1968 andy warhol said: "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes." If he was still around he'd also add that "and on the internet everyone with a keyboard will be an expert on all things"..

As long as it's on topic and the discussion is civil, let's hear from all the keyboard experts.
Um, OK then
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:37 AM   #4911
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The LED headlight, if I ever move to the new model, I am not letting this get away. :) I love innovative things.
The fan is not to keep things cool. The construction is kept cool by... erm... hitting the air coming from the front.
The fan is for using the heat to fight the condensation. Pretty smart actually.
]

Thanks NLS, That's good info.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:56 AM   #4912
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Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
I'm with ya....and will add that conversing and wanting to learn about the subject is a lot more interesting to me than what color and option package everyone is going choose.

Fwiw, my first choice is white...EJ, what's yours?
I'm reticent to say for fear the majority won't agree and will attack I've never had a red bike and my current GS is white, so I think red, although I am warming up to the white.

Great post Moronic and thanks GB for jumping in before the majority completely pummeled us 'headshakers', as we were labelled, into the ground.

By the way Moronic, I think the number of issues with headshake/tankslappers is actually 4 out of 8 reviews so far...so that's half that experienced this issue in a one day 280km ride which I'm estimating from looking at a map of the route was no more than half on dirt. Now there were 20 bikes as I understand it on the ride that day...I will remove the two crashed bikes from the calculation to respect the moderator that asked us to refrain from speculation as to the cause of their crashes, so even if none of the other journalists experienced a headshake or tankslapper that day (likely?) that would change the ratio to 4/18 or 22% experiencing the issues on a one day ride.

How to explain this? I'm baffeled....since I'm not an engineer or tech I don't really know...Could it be as simple as a bad batch of tires or wheels, assembly error or a production part tolerance that differs from the preproduction ones...I have no idea, but I can tell you that I don't appreciate being labelled a troll for discussing this issue. A friend calls me a BMW fan boi and blind faith serial buyer...yes I've purchased 10 BMWs (bikes and cars) in the last 15 years. As I've mentioned I'm #2 on the list at my dealer so I'll have to make a decision in the next few weeks if I get the bike and hope that my bike doesn't experience the same issue or that BMW steps up and fixes it after the fact or if I wait and see. Frankly, with no word from BMW on the subject, I'm probably more in the camp of waiting and seeing.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:02 AM   #4913
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
Personally, I don't give a lot about what the journalists say. I've seen a group of them "testing" bikes in the Alps over 10 years ago when I was on a two week trip there, they were in the same hotel for a couple days - I wouldn't have been surprised if half of them hadn't returned alive and healthy from that trip. They were riding like complete idiots (to avoid harsher words), risking their own, their peers, and other motorists health and life.
.
This is my take on the "expert" journalists' reports as well. Haveing met several, and seen their behavior around a new release. It is like watching a group of teens in a rental Corvettes!

Jim
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:11 AM   #4914
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Originally Posted by ShaftEd View Post

Not so sure about the led headlight either. Looks cool, but it's got a fan running in the housing to keep things cool. What happens if/when the fan fails?
I'm a big fan of the LED and really want it. BMW has offered LED headlights for a few years in their cars (high end option) so I'm hoping they have it figured out. Would have been nice for a journalist at the South Africa event to take one out after dark though to check out the beam and review how it compares with the halogen. I read that the halogen beam/reflector has been significantly improved so the LED may not offer much more illumination, but I still want it.

The other question is, since there was an apparent delay in US DOT approving the LED for US bikes, did they build the first batch of US spec bikes with only the halogen headlights.....

Any of you guys want the LED so much that you'd wait for it if they have the identical bike that you want in stock, but no LED? I think I would, but would be tough to wait.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #4915
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
This is my take on the "expert" journalists' reports as well. Haveing met several, and seen their behavior around a new release. It is like watching a group of teens in a rental Corvettes!

Jim
They don't call press junkets "Journo GP" for nothing.. and don't forget, the journo's go on an all expenses paid trip, so they'd better not bite the hand that feeds them or they won't get invited to the next bike launch press junket. Hence, the bike mags always accentuate the positive and fluff the negative of any bike they review.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #4916
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How to explain this? I'm baffeled....since I'm not an engineer or tech I don't really know...Could it be as simple as a bad batch of tires or wheels, assembly error or a production part tolerance that differs from the preproduction ones...
It could be as simple as a group of riders, one following the other on a washboard surface all at the same speed (because of that "following" thing), all standing up (because of that washboard thing), all kind of a the edge of the performance envelope of themselves and of the bikes (because of that 120 to 140km/h thing), all experiencing the same behavior at the same stretch of road.

It would be kind of the same if they were all saying "when we rode 120km/h through that tight corner with sand and dust in our lane we all flew off the road" ... meaning you go over the performance limits of the bike / tires / rider in a repeated way and bad things can happen in a repeated way.

The "Doctor, when I do this, it hurts! -- Then don't do that" analogy might not have been that far off.

And to be honest: if there's a real problem, it'll be solved, if there isn't a real problem, it's more likely that some guys got over-excited and pushed the envelope a bit too far. It might be a compliment for the bike that it didn't buck them off much earlier. With all the info we have, that's about as likely as a real problem.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:57 PM   #4917
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
It could be as simple as a group of riders, one following the other on a washboard surface all at the same speed (because of that "following" thing), all standing up (because of that washboard thing), all kind of a the edge of the performance envelope of themselves and of the bikes (because of that 120 to 140km/h thing), all experiencing the same behavior at the same stretch of road.

It would be kind of the same if they were all saying "when we rode 120km/h through that tight corner with sand and dust in our lane we all flew off the road" ... meaning you go over the performance limits of the bike / tires / rider in a repeated way and bad things can happen in a repeated way.
I don't think they all experienced this behavior at 120-140kph (about 75 - 85mph). If they did, I think it would be less of a concern.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91507.html

"However, the GS did disappoint me during a casual ride down an open dirt road. I was standing up to get cool air through my riding gear, traveling about 45 mph, when I encountered a washboard section. In an instant and with seemingly no provocation, the bike went into a wild tankslapper that threatened to throw me from the bike. It was a very panicked second before the steering regained its composure. "

-SM
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:08 PM   #4918
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
I don't think they all experienced this behavior at 120-140kph (about 75 - 85mph). If they did, I think it would be less of a concern.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91507.html

"However, the GS did disappoint me during a casual ride down an open dirt road. I was standing up to get cool air through my riding gear, traveling about 45 mph, when I encountered a washboard section. In an instant and with seemingly no provocation, the bike went into a wild tankslapper that threatened to throw me from the bike. It was a very panicked second before the steering regained its composure. "

-SM
All this shake stuff...

These guys have just come back from a test ride and said they never noticed a damn thing!!



You all just have to chill out to loosen up a bit I think..
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #4919
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I don't think they all experienced this behavior at 120-140kph (about 75 - 85mph).
I'm aware of that report noting a different speed. Don't know what to make of that. May or may not be accurate. So far, I'm totally unconcerned - mainly because of three things: it will likely not matter at all for "normal" riders, pretty much every bike has an "oscillation frequency" where it'll start a shake if you hit it hard enough with the right force and frequency, and BMW will address it if it really is a problem that will affect more riders.

Therefore, I rather concentrate on the question whether I can get away with buying a new bike again, or better, how long I have to wait so that I can get away with it ... I'm going through too many bikes, not like Oalvarez, of course, but he's hard to beat anyways ...
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:02 PM   #4920
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
I don't think they all experienced this behavior at 120-140kph (about 75 - 85mph). If they did, I think it would be less of a concern.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91507.html

"However, the GS did disappoint me during a casual ride down an open dirt road. I was standing up to get cool air through my riding gear, traveling about 45 mph, when I encountered a washboard section. In an instant and with seemingly no provocation, the bike went into a wild tankslapper that threatened to throw me from the bike. It was a very panicked second before the steering regained its composure. "

-SM
That's what happens when BMW is foolish and allows themselves to be lured into competing with bikes ,like the Multistrada, that never were competitors in the first place. Wide rims and horsepower at the expense of low end torque, all for the people who have no idea what a GS is really about. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be great if the Adventure model lives up to it's name and comes with the same rim widths it's predecessors used.

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