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Old 05-27-2013, 02:12 AM   #9091
Bails
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
Yup, if you're prone to flipping a bike after two years never buy a new Duc.
You would not think this by the prices people ask on bike sales? The Ducati has held value worse than my XB12X which was quite good over the 4 years I owned it. My BM's all held there value well. I've got to the stage where I'm tied of fixing poor engineering , this is the second Ducati I've owned, I had a new one in 1978 and now this one. This one reminds me of the 1978 one, same types of issues, which most likely means the problems are in the genes of the builders.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:25 AM   #9092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bails View Post
You would not think this by the prices people ask on bike sales? The Ducati has held value worse than my XB12X which was quite good over the 4 years I owned it. My BM's all held there value well. I've got to the stage where I'm tied of fixing poor engineering , this is the second Ducati I've owned, I had a new one in 1978 and now this one. This one reminds me of the 1978 one, same types of issues, which most likely means the problems are in the genes of the builders.
Where I am (Japan), Ducs are pricey new but a bargain used. Mainly because people are still wary about their build quality/reliability, and their low resale value (vicious circle and all that...). Can pick up a Multi 1000S for under $4K on auction.
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:23 AM   #9093
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How are people liking the ESA compared to a good set of ohlins or wilbers shocks? A set of wilbers was far superior to what came from the factory on my 2005 R1200GS and ohlins were also much better than the factory shocks on my R1100RS.
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:13 AM   #9094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto View Post
How are people liking the ESA compared to a good set of ohlins or wilbers shocks? A set of wilbers was far superior to what came from the factory on my 2005 R1200GS and ohlins were also much better than the factory shocks on my R1100RS.
Most likely all shocks have improved since then?
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Old 05-27-2013, 05:41 AM   #9095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto View Post
How are people liking the ESA compared to a good set of ohlins or wilbers shocks? A set of wilbers was far superior to what came from the factory on my 2005 R1200GS and ohlins were also much better than the factory shocks on my R1100RS.
There was at least one that mentioned exactly this experience (can't find the post). He moved from a custom built set of shocks on his previous bike, to D-ESA in WGS. I don't remember details but I do remember he mentioned something like that it is the first time he doesn't miss the custom shocks and he probably will not do the same with GSW shocks.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:55 AM   #9096
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Amateur Comparison Review LC and MTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterGSA View Post
I had a GSA '08 and loved it on road, off it was too heavy. The new one will be interesting. This is my 8th BM, and I went to Ducati as the GS's got too stale.
I hired a GS last year overseas, and was very happy to get home to my Multi. It's very hard to go past an 1198 motor.
However, this GS is a big step forward. Make sure you have the demo in Dynamic mode, you'll have fun.
Here is my take:

I currently own a 2011 Multistrada, which I love. When I bought it, the GS was the contender, but my choice was decided by the excitement and fun factor. the GS was just too staid in comparison. I was a road biased rider, so that clinched it. (I have since discovered the MTS is dirt road capable) A few weeks ago I took the new 2013 GS out for a spin. Not a lot of chance to fully try it, but I did a deep lean charge onto an on ramp and a few power bursts on the highway. This new bike is a contender for the what comes after a multistrada.

Here is my summary of the advantages:
    • It has all the modes, changeable on the fly as the mts. more obvious buttons to push too. User friendly operation (MTS computer is PITA)
    • BMW wheels fit 60/40 road/dirt tires
    • way better cockpit comfort, soft seat, with several adjustment options, very effective screen, so much calmer back there, built in hiss flaps.
    • cruise control
    • no chain
    • workable luggage
    • @125HP, is 25 less than the MTS, but IMHO just slightly less overkill. The torque is brilliant, as much as I would use on the MTS anyways
    • This is not last years GS, it is a different bike, consciously made street capable, like they had the MTS in mind.
    • Self adjusting suspension, I couldn't tell, not enough bumps, but it was a very smooth ride.
    • smooth light clutch and Honda like silky precise and quiet gearbox, nothing remotely clunky
    • no chain
    • handled so easily, not sure what comes together for that feel
    • throttle response is not like the usual hesitant bmw style, very much direct action like the MTS.
    • 20 litre tank, I'm guessing anything gets better mileage than the mts
    • capable rear brake
    • 500lbs wet = MTS
    • no chain did I say
Disadvantages.
  • about $26K with all the whistles.
  • get to look like Charlie and Ewen clones.
  • 1st year anything, wait and see

MTS advantages:
  • red
  • sexy
  • red
  • faster (as if I could)
  • personality and character
  • it is a truly exciting ride
  • get to say "I ride a Ducati"
  • can wear a ducati baseball hat
  • many small quirks, but overall a brilliant ride

NOt that I am running out to change teams, I took the Ducati up to Squamish today and didn't wish I was on the beemer. But in the next year or two, if I might get itchy to upgrade, this one is definitely a contender.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:11 AM   #9097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalB View Post
MTS advantages:
  • red - GS too
  • sexy - depending on the angle you see it (that beak... as in GS... well both suck depending on the angle)
  • red - Erm... GS too?
  • faster (as if I could) - indeed faster
  • personality and character - GS too, this is NOT a Honda you compare too
  • it is a truly exciting ride - Agreed
  • get to say "I ride a Ducati" - Get to say "I ride a BMW"
  • can wear a ducati baseball hat - BMW makes one too, both countries suck at baseball too and both are way better in soccer which is a real sport after all
  • many small quirks, but overall a brilliant ride - Like GS
Very nice analysis thanks.

Check the red above, and the disadvantages list you missed on MTS:
  • Desmo (who threw nuts and bolts in the engine?)
  • Torque comes high RPM (although better than older MTS)
  • Ducati off-road = joke (LOL kind of joke)
  • Will next MTS again be different? Why don't they decide where this model fits or at least make a segment for itself?
  • (based on above) Resale value

Now the comparative analysis is more complete (if something you think is off, fair enough, I haven't ridden MTS extensively).
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:43 AM   #9098
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Duc & GS

Yesterday on a casual inspection of my 37,000-mile '10 MTS1200, I found the countershaft nut about ready to fall off !! OK, my fault, but I may have to "rethink" my claim that dealing with a chain is a non-issue. Guess I don't have the technical savvy to handle maintaining a chain.

Been looking at GSs for years; the new LC one looks very nice, but I'm trying to avoid a test-ride for another year (Mrs. Greg's appeal). At 5-8 they've always felt too large for me; Multi felt just right.

And a year from now, what value d'ya think a Multi 12 with 75,000 miles is gonna have (if the bottom end makes it)? Nil, I would imagine.

Have enjoyed very much reading riders' opinions of the new LC bike; keep 'em coming .

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #9099
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thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDADVGS View Post
NLS I'll make you a deal

How about I bump your post count by another 1000 giving you a post count of over 3000.

You get the cred you seek from having a higher post count, and save the rest of us from your constant drivel.

grahamspc stated the name of the magazine in his post.
thanks,some one had to say it.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #9100
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I'm discussing a purchase with a dealer and he sends me the bikes info. It shows the bike was built 12/2012. As popular as the GSW seems it is somewhat of a surprise that a bike was built in December of last year is still available. Any thoughts/comments?
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #9101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Very nice analysis thanks.

Check the red above, and the disadvantages list you missed on MTS:
  • Desmo (who threw nuts and bolts in the engine?)
  • Torque comes high RPM (although better than older MTS)
  • Ducati off-road = joke (LOL kind of joke)
  • Will next MTS again be different? Why don't they decide where this model fits or at least make a segment for itself?
  • (based on above) Resale value

Now the comparative analysis is more complete (if something you think is off, fair enough, I haven't ridden MTS extensively).

right on! great comeback, LOL

but the duchess has MORE red

I will not pretend the MTS enduro mode has any relationship to an enduro bike, GS in this case, but I will argue that it does have some offroad capability, at least better than the other fake off-roader V-strom with OEM tires. Having no dirt experience, I did take it on an off road training course for GSs, and shocked myself at what I could do, including single track. With some Knobbies or dirt biased tires (not available in 190 rear tires), It could do the job.
some pix: https://plus.google.com/photos/11118...IH17sqD9eaR8QE
I don't doubt that a better rider than I could do the same on a Harley or any UJM with some clearance.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:03 PM   #9102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajaburro View Post
thanks,some one had to say it.
So someone has to return to that every few posts.
Great. Who's next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalB View Post
...
Nice job!
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:14 PM   #9103
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A little update from my trip to Italy....

We rode from Varese, north through Italy into Switzerland, then into the Black Forest in Germany. Once in Germany, we did over 100kms on the autobahn.

For everyone talking about instability and head shake in previous posts, that's complete BS. I rode my bike off the clock (155mph indicated, 144mph on the GPS) with loaded panniers and soft luggage, on and off for the 100 clicks, and NOT ONCE was the bike unstable.

Guys, this bike absolutely ROCKS, and a GS really shouldn't do what this thing can do! After the 'bahn, the bike feels much looser, and eager, so if you get an opportunity to run it at max for a good few miles, do it!
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:30 PM   #9104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
A little update from my trip to Italy....

We rode from Varese, north through Italy into Switzerland, then into the Black Forest in Germany. Once in Germany, we did over 100kms on the autobahn.

For everyone talking about instability and head shake in previous posts, that's complete BS. I rode my bike off the clock (155mph indicated, 144mph on the GPS) with loaded panniers and soft luggage, on and off for the 100 clicks, and NOT ONCE was the bike unstable.

Guys, this bike absolutely ROCKS, and a GS really shouldn't do what this thing can do! After the 'bahn, the bike feels much looser, and eager, so if you get an opportunity to run it at max for a good few miles, do it!
WOW!

Was that the max. speed it could reach too?
How close where you to limiter? Did you hit it?
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #9105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Greg View Post
Yesterday on a casual inspection of my 37,000-mile '10 MTS1200, I found the countershaft nut about ready to fall off !! OK, my fault, but I may have to "rethink" my claim that dealing with a chain is a non-issue. Guess I don't have the technical savvy to handle maintaining a chain.

Been looking at GSs for years; the new LC one looks very nice, but I'm trying to avoid a test-ride for another year (Mrs. Greg's appeal). At 5-8 they've always felt too large for me; Multi felt just right.

And a year from now, what value d'ya think a Multi 12 with 75,000 miles is gonna have (if the bottom end makes it)? Nil, I would imagine.

Have enjoyed very much reading riders' opinions of the new LC bike; keep 'em coming .

--Doc
I think the value of a Ducati is like a lot of European cars, high purchase price but low second hand market because the second hand buyers see high maintenance and running costs. Whilst I'd like better trade prices I just see the depreciation as a cost for the fun I have, and my equation for value is would I pay the amount for the enjoyment return . As I sit here typing listening to the ringing in my ears I think I need a change so the wind noise disappears.

I purchased the Multi as a road bike, there is no way the bike is 4 bikes in one, perhaps 3 but not a serious dirt road bike. All bikes will travel a dirt road, but have a Multi fall over and you are going to be stuck without brake reservoir , clutch reservoir , and serious panel damage. Putting some steel around the outside will not stop the hand guards getting broken, and they hold the clutch and brake fluid containers. No rear brake soft wheels that bend on light rough roads all make this a road bike not an off road bike.


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