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Old 02-07-2011, 04:13 PM   #31
Lornce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
The figures at Anton's site roughly agree with my gearing spreadsheet, and mine agrees with the dyno's speedo.

The 6'6" ( 78") is the circumference, not the radius. I base mine on 80" circumference.
edit: Don't know anything about your dyno, John, but I'm an idiot sometimes.


Lornce screwed with this post 02-07-2011 at 08:20 PM
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #32
supershaft
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
You're claiming a 33% power increase from a camshaft? No offence, but you're either wrong, deluded or you're not telling the whole story.

Ermn, yea. Gains above 5k. Just like I mentioned earlier. Hello?

The rest is semantics:
Define a noteworthy lift increase.
Define low-end and mid-range.

The rest is reading. I said I had Dell's on it too. And I didn't say that was all I had done. I never said the cam was the whole story. I did say that I got right at 33% more power with the stock 8.7:1 CR. Remember, the CR that you said would leave it running like a fat girl with sneakers on? The CR that you suggested would deem installing a 336 a waste of time. The setup that you asked why bother and I told you why: 33% increase in power.

Do you read what you write? You said a 336 has no appreciable power increase over a 308 until you rev it over 5000rpm. That is not true. We can all read Lornce. Quit misquoting yourself and taking yourself out of context.

Noteworthy lift? 10%. The 336 has 14% more.

0 to 3k = low. 3k to 5k = mid. 5k to 8k = high. Now we are getting to something debatable! What is low and midrange! Too bad it doesn't have much to do with the erroneous info you have said about the 336 that we are debating.

No offense but I have heard your side of the 336 story from a whole bunch of others that either haven't really dealt with them at all or don't know how to deal with them.

supershaft screwed with this post 02-07-2011 at 06:24 PM
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:08 PM   #33
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Wow, you're kind of a hyperbolist extaordinaire. You should work for BMW.

Look, I'm getting a little tired of being misquoted and falsely accused by you.

Your game isn't concerned with facts or the useful exchange of ideas and information. Your generalities, false claims, accusations and arguments are getting kind of tedious. Back up your claims with dyno charts from a credible shop or keep it to yourself. Post some numbers: Before and after with details of all work done to accomplish same, if you want to be taken seriously.

Coming onto the internet and claiming 33% power gains from a mild duration cam is kind of delusional.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:19 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Don't know anything about your dyno, John. But those listed speeds by ratio/rpm are out a mile.

Useful I suppose as an approximation if comparing ratios, but completly out to lunch if you require accurate speed information.

If you've spent any time at all on an airhead with a gps you'll know what I'm talking about.


I'd be interested to know what speed you get at any given rpm and ratio so I can compare it with my spreadsheet.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:04 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
I'd be interested to know what speed you get at any given rpm and ratio so I can compare it with my spreadsheet.
John, I beg your pardon. And I owe Anton a huge apology. I completely misread that graph!

The bottom of the graph showing gears 1 through 6, I misread as representing rpm's 1K - 6k. So you can see how I'd misinterpret the results.

Heading back to edit my posts. Awfully sorry about that.

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Old 02-07-2011, 08:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
John, I beg your pardon. And I owe Anton a huge apology. I completely misread that graph!

The bottom of the graph showing gears 1 through 6, I misread as representing rpm's 1K - 6k. So you can see how I'd misinterpret the results.

Heading back to edit my posts. Awfully sorry about that.

No worries ( as we say around here).

Here's my graph. I'm pretty sure it's about right. It's based on an 80" wheel circumference which is a 130/70 -18

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Old 02-07-2011, 08:25 PM   #37
supershaft
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Wow, you're kind of a hyperbolist extaordinaire. You should work for BMW.

Look, I'm getting a little tired of being misquoted and falsely accused by you.

Your game isn't concerned with facts or the useful exchange of ideas and information. Your generalities, false claims, accusations and arguments are getting kind of tedious. Back up your claims with dyno charts from a credible shop or keep it to yourself. Post some numbers: Before and after with details of all work done to accomplish same, if you want to be taken seriously.

Coming onto the internet and claiming 33% power gains from a mild duration cam is kind of delusional.

Misquoted? You are cracking me up. No one has been misquoting you except for yourself. It is all right there to read in front of our eyes.

Falsely accused? Of what? Misquoting yourself? You are doing that to yourself.

Read what I wrote Lornce. I NEVER said that I got a 33% power gain from a 336 alone and I have tried three times now to explain to you that I never said that. Remember the Dellorto's? Not to mention what I did not say about my setup.

Your making false claims. Just because a bunch of others make the same false claims do not make them right. Like most here on the net of your type, now you want idiotnetable "proof" of my claims that you can google so it can stack up against the rest of your googled BS.

33% gains from a 336 alone is delusional. I knew I could get you to make some real sense about a 336 at some point. Now you need to come to grips with the fact that fixating on this trumped up accusation that I am claiming a 33% power gain out of a 336 alone right in the face of what I actually wrote and have sense refuted three times now is not going to make all the googled BS you repeated on the subject any more than googled BS.

Now it's your turn to go on and on about how I claimed a 33% power gain from a 336 alone. Here you are going on about generalities and false claims. Quote me saying I got 33% more power from a 336 alone. BTW, do it quoting complete sentences. Don't try doing to me what you have been doing to yourself! My point was and still is that a 336 will work with 8.7:1 compression just fine. You asked why anyone would install a sport cam and run lawnmower compression and I said that I got 33% more power with "lawnmower" compression. I had already mentioned the Dellorto's . They are a part of the increase as is a modified airbox, modified ports along with titanium valve spring retainers, and modified exhaust. All with stock 8.7:1 CR. It wasn't a waste of time at all. Now start going on about something you know about.

supershaft screwed with this post 02-07-2011 at 08:46 PM
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:19 PM   #38
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Most of what I know about airheads I've gained from 28 year's of fiddling with the things and the generous guidance of a few knowledgeable friends. Not google. fwiw.

If you'd care to share with us how you realised 33% additional power and at what RPM's you achieved these gains from your airhead, I'm sure you'll find a ready audience here. I'm really not interested in joining you in a mud fight.

Personally, I've currently got a high-mile GSPD that's faster and better handling than an 1150GS. While the second claim's not hard to achieve, the first took a bit of effort. It was worth it, and it ain't over yet. If you'd care to know anything about the mods I'm happy to tell you everything I know.

Don't take my word for the performance claims. Check with some of the other riders on the board.

Now, tell us all about your bike?

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Old 02-07-2011, 09:41 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
I'd be interested to know what speed you get at any given rpm and ratio so I can compare it with my spreadsheet.
Don't want to butt into the dispute between Lornec and supershaft, but my R100RT runs about 65 mph at 4000 rpm. This is according to my GPS. My final drive housing is stamped 32/11, but according to the various listings I've seen, I should be doing 70 or above with that particular ratio.
Which leads me to suspect that someone's installed different parts in my bike. Fuel economy has never matched what everyone tells me to expect either. I get anywhere from 32 to 48 mpg depending on riding conditions.

Ok. I'll quit pretending, I do want to butt in:

What's the point of arguing about cam specs for these things?
They'll never put out the kind of power that's commonplace these days for any of todays bikes over 500cc, so why worry about it?
My son's Ninja 500 (everyone calls it a "beginners bike") can easily walk away from my R100 (it's seen a gps certified 125 mph with only a front sprocket change), and probably could manage to pull away from all but the most radiacally tuned racing airheads.
Let's not even bring up what my Aprilia will do to any of them.

I resisted the notion for years, but let's face it guys, these are old, air cooled engines, and we'll never see them perform like modern bikes. If that's what you're looking for, give it up and buy a modern bike.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:48 PM   #40
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I resisted the notion for years, but let's face it guys, these are old, air cooled engines, and we'll never see them perform like modern bikes. If that's what you're looking for, give it up and buy a modern bike.
Yes and no. Arguing is a dumb waste of time.

But twiddling airheads for better performance can be a lot of fun.

And it can be educational.


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Old 02-07-2011, 09:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
.

Personally, I've currently got a high-mile GSPD that's faster and better handling than an 1150GS. While the second claim's not hard to achieve, the first took a bit of effort. It was worth it, and it ain't over yet. If you'd care to know anything about the mods I'm happy to tell you everything I know.


I would
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
Misquoted? \

Read what I wrote Lornce. I NEVER said that I got a 33% power gain from a 336 alone and I have tried three times now to explain to you that I never said that. Remember the Dellorto's? Not to mention what I did not say about my setup.
I'm really not taking sides here supershaft, I've read a few posts you've made in other threads, and I have a fair amount of respect for your knowledge. But I've also read quite a few of LorneC's posts as well, and I think he's also pretty knowledgable.

I suspect there's more than a little poorly worded stuff here that's causing a huge misunderstanding.

Quote:
I am willing to bet $100 that you wouldn't call my bike a fat girl with sneakers on if you saw it run! Who are you calling obnoxious? The cam is only $200. I don't call that expensive. Why bother? I got right around 33% more power with my stock CR. Big, big diff!
This quote, taken by itself, does suggest that you're saying the cam was entirely responsible for the 33% horsepower gain. Dellortos, and the cam? Probably a completely different story, although I'd really like to see dyno charts on that. 33% is a big gain.
You know what they say about horsepower and $.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:55 PM   #43
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my R100RT runs about 65 mph at 4000 rpm. This is according to my GPS. My final drive housing is stamped 32/11, but according to the various listings I've seen, I should be doing 70 or above with that particular ratio.

See my graph above. It shows about 68MPH for that drive box at 4000rpm. That's based on a 130/70 tyre. If you're running something smaller, it's not far out.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Yes and no. Arguing is a dumb waste of time.

But twiddling airheads for better performance can be a lot of fun.

And it can be educational.

I know.

But I just can't bring myself to mess with mine. I bought it just over 10 years ago this summer. It needed a lot of minor work due to neglect, but since that time, I've replaced tires every couple of years, changed the oil every 3000 miles, lubed the final drive splines every time the back wheel was off for a new tire, and filled it with gas every 150-180 miles. And I check the valves every once in a great while. I've only adjusted them three or four times in 60,000 miles.

This bike is like the Toyota Tercel of motorcycles. It's never failed me. This is what's great about airheads, they're simple and as long as you at least check the basic stuff, they just do what they're supposed to do.

I admire you guy's interest in obtaining more performance out of them, but compared to my Aprilia (which happens to be down for yet another weird electrical problem) riding an airhead is like driving an old 1300cc VW bug.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:10 PM   #45
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See my graph above. It shows about 68MPH for that drive box at 4000rpm. That's based on a 130/70 tyre. If you're running something smaller, it's not far out.
130 seems pretty wide. Mine used to have a 120/90 on it, which was there when I obtained the 65/4000 speed. I'm running a 110/90 now, which I've been told is the correct size rear tire. I find that I can now pull my back wheel off without letting the air out of the tire first.

I'll check it again. Not sure if the first number has as much effect as the second number.

(you need to break that graph down into 10 or even 5 mph increments)
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