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Old 02-15-2011, 01:42 PM   #91
supershaft
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I just grabbed two real handy 308's in my shop. One of them is marked. The other one has nothing on it. I have seen that a lot. Some of them have 247 marked on them without a 308 anywhere if I remember right.

I think I know what gears Moore is running. If I understand it correctly, they are simply RS close ratio gears that are NLA from BMW. I don't know of any redesigned gear sets. Let me know if you remember the name!

Maybe two thirds of your exhaust being blocked had something to do with the low figures?? Seriously though, I never said your sniffer was off. I said that if would be easy to get a contaminated sniff on the road. I also said that the ones like the guy is making in the DIY link that you supplied is just like the ones my friends have had real good luck with.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:42 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
It seems to me that you are for the most part comparing a cam timed a whole tooth off to one timed correctly?
That's ancient history. The graph I posted above was three years ago and not what was recorded today. Obviously confused things by posting it. what I'm planning on doing is throwing in the towel with my current setup because it doesn't work as well as it could. Fitting a Cam that has 308 stamped on it because it's obvious what it is, fitting the standard air box and jetting and put the bike as close to standard as I can. In this configuration it should then still run to around 50 BHP and the jetting should be correct. once I'm at this stage I will then be in a position to fit Richie Moores +18% kit that should then give me 8 to 10 BHP more. If I just bolt Richie's parts on to the bike with my current set up it could end up as a complete mess.
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:50 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I just grabbed two real handy 308's in my shop. One of them is marked. The other one has nothing on it. I have seen that a lot. Some of them have 247 marked on them without a 308 anywhere if I remember right.
Is there a part number on the unmarked ones?

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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
I think I know what gears Moore is running. If I understand it correctly, they are simply RS close ratio gears that are NLA from BMW. I don't know of any redesigned gear sets. Let me know if you remember the name!
It was a name and they are seriously expensive.

BTW Have a look here Link
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:00 PM   #94
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I don't think you have confused anything by posting that chart. It was a few years ago, 37hp at 5500rpm with the cam off a whole tooth. I suspect timing the cam right alone would get you back to what it should be. Then you said you saw 50hp. That could be a couple of hp gain form stock right there! Maybe your jetting and airbox did it but I can't make any sense of what you have said about that.

No marks whatsoever on the unmarked 308 that I just looked at. I have seen a lot that did not have the numbers 308 on them.

I already looked at that link. That's were I got the info about his trann. If they are the RS CR knockoffs I suspect they are, there is no reason to say it isn't a BMW tranny on the inside. RS CR gears have always been very expensive!
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:16 PM   #95
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I can get the jetting right at higher RPM but not at the lower end. Some-things obviously not right around the three grand mark because I'm having to go leaner on the jetting taking it further and further away from the stock jetting. If the cam is a 308 then I'd expect the standard jetting to be somewhere near where it needs to be. The heads, valves, guides have all been done and I've fitted new rings and checked compression.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:26 PM   #96
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the gearset that we use is nova dyson it is all stright cut with undercut dogs the only parts from bmw are the selectors and selector plate. they change gear like a jap box but the whine is bad. top quality and made in ENGLAND.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:36 PM   #97
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I swap and see all the time. Let me ask you this way: What did just correcting the cam timing do? The deal with swapping parts is that you have to do it one thing at a time if your goal is to make a comparative analysis!

In my experience, cams don't effect jetting that much.

Your 3000 rpm issue. With stock airbox? clamshell? Both? Airbox setups REALLY effect performance right in there!

Plus, reading a sniffer on a dyno or just loading the engine on the road at 3000rpm can be misleading. For instance, most dyno runs START about right there and for good reason. Low rpm and just loaded throws the sniffers AND the torque meter off. You can do a dyno run and get your torque peak at just when the motor is loaded way down at 3000 rpm or so. The torque peak is really up higher on the chart where it gets back up to almost the peak way down lower in the revs.

Dynos are for upper mid and high rpm tuning. Inertia dynos simply just do not do low rpm readings. The lower you go with a break dyno the more the operator has to change his load and rev sequence. You can only go so low and it takes a good dyno operator!

Personally, I wouldn't worry about what the sniffers are saying about 3000rpm and jet that part of the rev range by the seat of your pants remembering that the leanest is where it's the meanest!

supershaft screwed with this post 02-15-2011 at 02:41 PM
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by moorespeed View Post
the gearset that we use is nova dyson it is all stright cut with undercut dogs the only parts from bmw are the selectors and selector plate. they change gear like a jap box but the whine is bad. top quality and made in ENGLAND.
+

That's what I thought. I didn't realize the all the gears are straight cut. Can you get them both ways? For a race bike and maybe even a street bike depending on how loud they are, I really like the idea of straight cut. I mean, why axially load the bearings when you don't have to except for noise!!! I thought they were made in England! Well even the stock gears have slightly undercut dogs but all straight cut gears IS a fundamental difference! I wonder if the are really any stronger for it. I know a lot of people blame the helical cut for causing problems when it is in fact the input shaft cush drive. No experience with hack racing but I have seen the RS CR gear sets take plenty of HP!
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:06 PM   #99
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you could not stand the noise on a road bike you can hear the whine above the exhaust note on a race bike, the undercut dogs are propper , you only have to tap the leaver and it jumps to the next gear with no use of the clutch.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #100
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you could not stand the noise on a road bike you can hear the whine above the exhaust note on a race bike, the undercut dogs are propper , you only have to tap the leaver and it jumps to the next gear with no use of the clutch.

I thought that all the gears but the input pair were straight cut on a standard box?
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #101
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So the A/F graph shows upper and lower limits.
I take it that is the region you want the ratio to be in? 12.5-13.5?
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by moorespeed View Post
you could not stand the noise on a road bike you can hear the whine above the exhaust note on a race bike, the undercut dogs are propper , you only have to tap the leaver and it jumps to the next gear with no use of the clutch.
Do they make them helical cut as well?

Are they the same ratios as the RS CR sets?
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:51 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
So the A/F graph shows upper and lower limits.
I take it that is the region you want the ratio to be in? 12.5-13.5?
That is what everybody I know shoots for. I guess it is what Moorespeed shoots for since those lines are entered in on the chart and can easily be changed from what I can tell.

Our trannys have three shafts. 1st though 4th are straight cut and fifth and the input gear are helical for noise reduction. A lot of stuff is that way. Many a primary gear!
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:06 PM   #104
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I thought I'd show you my air fuel meter in action....but the video frame rate seems not to agree with the LED frame rate!

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Old 02-16-2011, 01:52 AM   #105
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That is what everybody I know shoots for. I guess it is what Moorespeed shoots for since those lines are entered in on the chart and can easily be changed from what I can tell.
That chart and all of my fumblings about are nothing to do with Moorespeed. The whole point of this thread is down to me getting my Airhead in shape ready for a Moorespeed kit to be installed. There's no point in bolting high performance parts onto something that's not right in the first place. Richie's just provided some friendly pointers over the telephone, he's in the same position as you guys doing similar on line though without actually being there it's difficult. In an ideal world we would all be grouped round a dyno with an unlimited budget and plenty of time.

I know some of my posts may come across as though I don't appreciate the comments but I do.

I'm going to pull the motor this week and measure up to see exactly what I have and what state it's in.
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