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Old 02-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #106
bgoodsoil
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man you're not screwing around. this'll be a new bike by next week.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:45 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl View Post
Will do. What's the best way to remove them.?

Hey bluebye, so flip it upside down and shoot it with a lot of brake cleaner, then keeping it upside down hit it with an air hose? Should I leave it draining for a bit? Really dont want to split the cases but do want to save the bearings. I've had 3 2stroke people look at the bottom end, and all of them said leave it. But can you really tell the condition of the bearings just by feeling the crank?
Yeah, you got it. You should be able to flush it out with enough brake clean, air ,and patience. Yes, you can tell the condition of the bearings by "feel". Just know, getting all that debris in the crankcase has comprimised tthe remaining life in the bearings. Dirt etc. kills roller bearings quickly. Clean it out throughly and try not to turn the crank until you have it clean and oiled. Good Luck.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl View Post
Ok. So how difficult is it to split cases? I'm think about racing this bike in isdt or vintage cc. I feel like I should just do it. So what am I in for and what kind of tools will I need? Thx
The only unusual tool you may need, would be to pull the flywheel/ignition rotor. An impact driver for the case screws, rubber/plastic mallet and large flatblade screwdrivers/prybars is all you'll need to get it apart. For re-assembly, you'll need some 'Suzuki-bond' or 'Yama-bond' case sealant..... check with your friendly locals for a smidge to borrow.

Just use common sense - as you already seem to have in abundance - about no prying against mated surfaces that may cause leaks. Have some thin pieces of wood or soft metal handy to pry against if needed. You'll do just fine.

It isn't so much the bearings I'd be worried about, but the crank seals. The longer they sit without the engine being run, the more likely they are to fail and cause a siezure. The bearings are open on both sides, and can be flushed out to clean them of debris. Those local 2T experts who looked at your crank are likely trustworthy regarding the bearings, but there's no 'test' for the crank seals without running the engine.......and by then, it's too late if they fail.
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Duck_Pilot screwed with this post 02-20-2011 at 09:56 AM
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:07 AM   #109
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Geez. Gloom and doom for 2stroke owners. Will do. I'm still going to replace the one side that can be had without splitting the cases.

Hey brad. When are you going to come over and help me? Just found a flywheel puller I had bought for the '74 my friend had. Hoping they're the same. Thanks




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Originally Posted by Duck_Pilot View Post
The only unusual tool you may need, would be to pull the flywheel/ignition rotor. An impact driver for the case screws, rubber/plastic mallet and large flatblade screwdrivers/prybars is all you'll need to get it apart. For re-assembly, you'll need some 'Suzuki-bond' or 'Yama-bond' case sealant..... check with your friendly locals for a smidge to borrow.

Just use common sense - as you already seem to have in abundance - about no prying against mated surfaces that may cause leaks. Have some thin pieces of wood or soft metal handy to pry against if needed. You'll do just fine.

It isn't so much the bearings I'd be worried about, but the crank seals. The longer they sit without the engine being run, the more likely they are to fail and cause a siezure. The bearings are open on both sides, and can be flushed out to clean them of debris. Those local 2T experts who looked at your crank are likely trustworthy regarding the bearings, but there's no 'test' for the crank seals without running the engine.......and by then, it's too late if they fail.
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:29 AM   #110
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there's no 'test' for the crank seals without running the engine.
Technically not true Just google "2 stroke pressure test".
http://www.dansmc.com/vacuum_testing.htm
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:10 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by tbirdsp View Post
Technically not true Just google "2 stroke pressure test".
http://www.dansmc.com/vacuum_testing.htm
Yes, you are quite correct there, friend. You can always do a leak-down test on any type of engine piston engine (or compressor). But we're talk'n basement mechanics here, not 'well-equipped-professional-shop' service.

While the engine is apart already, my advice is to do it right - ONCE - and take yer sweet time with it. The job satisfaction and peace of mind is well worth it. I've never been a big fan of 'hurry-it-up-and-worry-'bout-it-later' operations, 'cause I've never enjoyed doing constant repairs, and not really trusting my ride.

But then again.....this ain't my bike, and I'm not being paid to work on it, either. Please remember, Lady Jenna.....free advice is often worth no more than the price paid for it.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:58 PM   #112
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Yeah, you got it. You should be able to flush it out with enough brake clean, air ,and patience. Yes, you can tell the condition of the bearings by "feel". Just know, getting all that debris in the crankcase has comprimised tthe remaining life in the bearings. Dirt etc. kills roller bearings quickly. Clean it out throughly and try not to turn the crank until you have it clean and oiled. Good Luck.
Just another opinion on cleaning out the bottom end, I don't think it's a good idea to use anything like brake cleaner that's going to completely strip all the protective oil off of the steel bits. The trick I learned from the old timers is to use kerosene. Pour some in, slosh it around, dump it out, and repeat until you're convinced the crud is gone. It will wash out any debris but also leaves behind a little protective oil film everywhere (including the nooks and crannies that you'd miss if you sprayed oil around in there after the brake cleaner). My 2 bits.
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:17 PM   #113
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X2 on the kerosene. Works pretty well.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:12 PM   #114
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X2 on the kerosene. Works pretty well.
Aw crap. Too late. I used brake cleaner, but not very much I blew it out first. It made sense to get the dry matter out before hitting it with a liquid and making it tacky. So I blew it out with air first, upside down. Then a few good squirts of brake cleaner and then again, I hit it with air and I didn't want that stuff sitting down there too long. Not much came out, it was very clean.
I know in the pic of me wire brushing the gasket out looks like the bottom was open, it wasnt'. the brush had just hit the plastic I'd taped up, so I took a pic before wiping and fixing the plastic.

P1050018

So after airing it out, I hit it with a shit ton of this canadian spray oil. Stuff is really good, got it in Labrador. Bought a seal puller at autozone, and some 6v bulbs.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:54 PM   #115
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Again, I'm at a standstill. I became really fed up with the forks, so I decided to do something radical. Now where's that gallon of muriatic acid???
















P1050039

There it is!!! Notice the bits of fork oil seal in front of the acid. That took about 20 mins to dig out. You can understand my frustration. Well thought I could soften or at least have the acid eat the rubber seal off. So, I poured a bit in there, undiluted 'cause I'm impatient, and watched the fireworks.

P1050034

At this point, the seals are just pieces of rubber glued to the fork, they would've never come out in one piece. I let it sit for a min. so that I didn't destroy anything. Washed it out and did it again. But it just wasn't cutting it. So now I've got nasty carb cleaner sitting in there. I figure if it will eat up an oring, it has to do something to the seals.

P1050042

If this doesn't work, I'm going to have to go on ebay and just buy a set of forks in better shape. If I cannot completely remove the seals, they'll never seal right again? Don't you think? Still no top end or seals, all in route I hope. Put a new socket in the tail light, but no sense in checking all that till I get the bike running.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:42 PM   #116
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So still no luck getting the allen bolt out to take the inner fork tubes out?
Once you get them aprt you can use a slide hammer to get the seals out, like I had to do.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:02 PM   #117
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Yes, you must fill the forks with oil. Springs out!

Use a handyman jack or be safe and take it to a machine shop and have them compress them for you. Plus, all of the oil that spews out will be their problem to clean up.

Again, make sure the springs are out. If it slips from the jack, a compressed fork would go through the roof!
Yes, you have to have fork oil in there. Might as well over-fill with some cheap gas station engine-oil.

The springs can stay in if you are safety conscious and\or brave (sounds like you can't get them out because of the dampener rod?.) I did this method on my porch between the railings, springs and all, and used a couple of cam straps to hold everything in place. On these older, smaller bikes, they really isn't THAT much force\distance required.

Also, if you go slow, you definitely don't HAVE to make a mess.

This is not a safe way of doing things, and like everything you read on the internet, your mileage will vary.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:45 PM   #118
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So still no luck getting the allen bolt out to take the inner fork tubes out?
Once you get them aprt you can use a slide hammer to get the seals out, like I had to do.
Nope, still cannot get them apart. it's a long, boring story, but it just doesn't seems possible anymore. The hole at the top of the damper rod is a narrower opening than the damper rod itself. So, once you get your wooden dowel past the opening, it really doesn't hold the damper rod very well.

The seals are no longer their former self. Honestly, it is impossible to take them out wholey. They will have to come out peice by piece. So at this point, I think it's useless to blow them out. Oh well....
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:22 PM   #119
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Sorry, I'm kinda stuck. I drained a 1/2 liter of water out of my bug's sump today. Also, the engine doesn't seem to want to turn by hand. I'm hoping I don't find a line of rust in my cylinders. I'm babying it before I turn the key.

Luckily there's a shop full of old-timers that restore VWs and Aston Martin's all day every day 2 miles from my house. Score! That guy explained how half the car functioned in about 15 minutes of talking to him. Then he sold me a filter gasket kit for a whopping dollar fifty.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:02 PM   #120
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Sorry, I'm kinda stuck. I drained a 1/2 liter of water out of my bug's sump today. Also, the engine doesn't seem to want to turn by hand. I'm hoping I don't find a line of rust in my cylinders. I'm babying it before I turn the key.

Luckily there's a shop full of old-timers that restore VWs and Aston Martin's all day every day 2 miles from my house. Score! That guy explained how half the car functioned in about 15 minutes of talking to him. Then he sold me a filter gasket kit for a whopping dollar fifty.
Guess were all screwed Sorry about the bug... Ill let you know when I get the cylinder back so we can button her up.
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