ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-17-2014, 01:37 PM   #1
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Genuine Hooligan 170i Official thread!

I thought I would start an official thread for the upcoming Genuine Hooligan 170i that is set to ship the 1st week of May and arriving at dealers shortly after that. My nearest Genuine dealer expects them if everything is on time to be Tuesday the 13th thru Thursday the 15th. Of coarse it depends on a lot of variables such as when they actually ship and how long it takes the shipping company to get it here. So until they show up nothing is official.

This is the next scooter on my hit list. I have been curious for some time and I like the Zuma like design but a stronger motor. SO far not many official details have come forward. Just last Saturday it went officially live on the Genuine web site. I am still partially reserved but it will probably still happen. One of my concerns is overall size? I am hoping for something a little larger then the Zuma 125. Judging by the pictures released so far I would say its safe to assume it is a little larger. I am also curious about the dashboard? Is it all high tech and cool or is it plain Jane basic? No official photos have been displayed that I have found. However the PGO version of this scooter has a fairly cool dash.

Also have not decided on color. At first it had to be flat black but I think I like the military green.

Price is a bit shocking at $3,399. I know Genuine is pretty highly rated and fit and finish from what I have seen is first rate but this is not a Japanese scooter being put out by the Japanese big 4. So I feel its sort of handicapped. However in the other hand its only a few hundred more then a Zuma 125 and it should be in theory a larger scooter with a bit more comfort and a lot more power. Should be able to run circles around the Zuma 125 at least one that is stock!

Below is the page on the Genuine site. Not much real info yet.

http://www.genuinescooters.com/hooligan.html
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #2
Oldenuftaknowbetter
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Fresno, CA
Oddometer: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
I thought I would start an official thread for the upcoming Genuine Hooligan 170i that is set to ship the 1st week of May and arriving at dealers shortly after that. My nearest Genuine dealer expects them if everything is on time to be Tuesday the 13th thru Thursday the 15th. Of coarse it depends on a lot of variables such as when they actually ship and how long it takes the shipping company to get it here. So until they show up nothing is official.

This is the next scooter on my hit list. I have been curious for some time and I like the Zuma like design but a stronger motor. SO far not many official details have come forward. Just last Saturday it went officially live on the Genuine web site. I am still partially reserved but it will probably still happen. One of my concerns is overall size? I am hoping for something a little larger then the Zuma 125. Judging by the pictures released so far I would say its safe to assume it is a little larger. I am also curious about the dashboard? Is it all high tech and cool or is it plain Jane basic? No official photos have been displayed that I have found. However the PGO version of this scooter has a fairly cool dash.

Also have not decided on color. At first it had to be flat black but I think I like the military green.

Price is a bit shocking at $3,399. I know Genuine is pretty highly rated and fit and finish from what I have seen is first rate but this is not a Japanese scooter being put out by the Japanese big 4. So I feel its sort of handicapped. However in the other hand its only a few hundred more then a Zuma 125 and it should be in theory a larger scooter with a bit more comfort and a lot more power. Should be able to run circles around the Zuma 125 at least one that is stock!

Below is the page on the Genuine site. Not much real info yet.

http://www.genuinescooters.com/hooligan.html
Msrp on the 2014 Zuma 125 is $3,390 in California. From what I can gather the Hooligan is larger and a little heavier than my Buddy 170i, with 12" wheels, disc brakes front and rear, and dual shock rear suspension vs single on the Buddy.
Oldenuftaknowbetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 05:38 PM   #3
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
I wonder if it has the same engine as the Buddy 170i. It seems to, displacement is exactly the same. I don't see an oil cooler, but it is probably hidden under the bodywork. It is still air cooled.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 05:43 PM   #4
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldenuftaknowbetter View Post
Msrp on the 2014 Zuma 125 is $3,390 in California. From what I can gather the Hooligan is larger and a little heavier than my Buddy 170i, with 12" wheels, disc brakes front and rear, and dual shock rear suspension vs single on the Buddy.
Wow so the Hooligan 170i is in fact the same price as the Zuma 125. Hopefully the Hooligan is a bit larger then the Buddy's. Buddy's just look so small however surprisingly once seated they feel just fine.

Just what speed does the Buddy 170 top out at?

According to an early press release its not exactly the same motor. Similar but the Hooligan 170 will have some enhancements. Unknown just what those enhancements will be. I doubt it will be anything mind blowing. Probably the same everything just some tweaking to the fuel map.

Right now I am thinking of parting with the Agility 125 and the Super 8 150. Both carbureted and I did not appreciate the long wait on some very benign parts. Overall great bikes but I won't need them with some of the new stuff I am getting. The Super 8 I will break even on but I will loose 50% on the Agility. I might keep one of them just for the heck of it and be more valuable as a keeper then get nothing for it. I got 3 weeks or whatever to figure it out.
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 08:09 PM   #5
aidanpryde18
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Kentucky
Oddometer: 81
Reminds me a lot of the Kymco Yager, but with a much better grill.
aidanpryde18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 07:27 AM   #6
Dabears
Beastly Adventurer
 
Dabears's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta Burbs
Oddometer: 1,094
http://www.scooterdynasty.com/170ccg...ligan170i.aspx

There's some specs if you haven't seen yet. Claiming 65+ mph. Hp is considerably less than same cc SYM hd200, but I expect that is partly due to genuine being air cooled vs SYM. SYM is not FI tho.

Very interested in hearing more about this one. Will check my dealer out when they come in.
__________________
Dabears

2012 SYM HD200 Evo
2006 R1200GS
1980 Vespa P200E
Dabears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 08:46 AM   #7
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
http://www.scooterdynasty.com/170ccg...ligan170i.aspx

There's some specs if you haven't seen yet. Claiming 65+ mph. Hp is considerably less than same cc SYM hd200, but I expect that is partly due to genuine being air cooled vs SYM. SYM is not FI tho.

Very interested in hearing more about this one. Will check my dealer out when they come in.
Thanks for the detailed info.

Hmm size wise at least on paper comparing specifications its just a hair larger then the Kymco Agility 125. Both have a 51" wheelbase. The Hooligan is 74" long and the Agility is 71.5" long. Width is 29" on the Hooligan and the Agility is 27" wide. Seat height is 32" on the Hooligan vs 31" on the Agility.

Size wise I was hoping for something a little larger. However I will reserve final judgement until seeing it in person. Despite similar specifications in size it just may end up looking a lot larger. A few inches here and there can make a difference. Also the Agility has a huge whale tale for a fender and that can add a lot to the total length. The Agility 125 is actually a pretty tiny scooter.

HP rating (11.2) and claimed top speed (65MPH) is also a bit low. However if its truly a bullet proof motor and it runs solid inside its design envelope I really don't care that much. Still thinking maybe 13 or 14HP and a top speed of 70 to 75 would be a lot better though.

Despite its larger sized motor this does not look like it could beat a PCX 150.
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 01:34 PM   #8
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
The SYM seems to be in a class by itself. It is the fastest scooter out there for it's displacement, it has the larger wheels which could hopefully be fitted with real tires that will last over 5000 miles, it is liquid cooled, and best of all, it has a carb. So much for a carb being a performance liability.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:09 PM   #9
Dabears
Beastly Adventurer
 
Dabears's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta Burbs
Oddometer: 1,094
I think it was on ModernBuddy where I read that the Hooligan is like 5 inches longer than the Genuine Buddy. It also has 12 inch wheels. The Buddy is a great scooter, but I have never cared for the looks and it does not suit 2 up riding for adults.

Interested to see whether the Hooligans additional length helps for passenger riding.

Also, it's a full 20 lbs lighter than the SYM, so it would be less stress on my Versahaul, and perhaps easier to load as well.
__________________
Dabears

2012 SYM HD200 Evo
2006 R1200GS
1980 Vespa P200E
Dabears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #10
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The SYM seems to be in a class by itself. It is the fastest scooter out there for it's displacement, it has the larger wheels which could hopefully be fitted with real tires that will last over 5000 miles, it is liquid cooled, and best of all, it has a carb. So much for a carb being a performance liability.
I really need to go out and take a look at SYM. Slowly but surely the dealer network is growing. Still not really convenient for my location but it looks like Seattle Cycle Center recently picked up the line. So they are slowly heading north towards my direction. With the amount of dealers here in the North end someone is bound to pick them up.

I am still very interested in the Hooligan 170i however I am still somewhat reserved. I am starting to feel its not really very much scooter and it seems a bit overpriced. Yeah it has some modern amenities like fuel injection and likely an advanced instrument cluster. Its likely to have very good fit and finish. Probably be a very solid and reliable scooter. However "Bang for the Buck" it is not.

Looks like the best bang for the buck in this class is the Lance PCH150. Specs are pretty dang close to the Hooligan 170i. You give up some modern amenities like fuel injection and a hit in fit and finish but the rest of the package should be fine and deliver years of reliability.

PCH150

Wheelbase: 52.16 "
Length: 75"
Width: 27.16"
Seat height: 31"
HP: 10.3
torque: 10.8
Curb weight: 240.3 lbs

Hooligan 170i
Wheelbase: 51"
Length: 74"
Width: 29"
Seat Height: 32"
HP: 11.2
torque: 7.82
Curb weight: 280 lbs

Not sure why the Hooligan 170i would have less torque.

I bet with the Hooligan 170i being heavier it would end up feeling about the same on the road as the Lance PCH150.

I am really starting to feel the Hooligan 170i is going to be a bit to small for my taste. I am not looking for maxi scooter size but something with a little more body then a Zuma 125 or Agility 125. Also its just so expensive for what it is. If it was just a little larger and a little more powerful I think it would be totally cool and worth it but so far I am not seeing it.

A friend of mine suggested maybe I go in a slightly different direction. Perhaps instead of getting a Hooligan 170i go for a Grom? Price wise they would be about the same.
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 03:54 PM   #11
CaptnJim
Scootist
 
CaptnJim's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Wandering (but based in the Tropical Tip of Texas)
Oddometer: 816
Sounds like the Honda PCX 150 comes close to all those dimensions... well, except more horse power, a lower seat height, and a stronger dealer network.

As I recall, that's on the list somewhere... but it is fun watching all the wheelin' and dealin'.

And that new Burgman 200 seems to be a slight step up from these, as well. Not being nosey, but... what's your end goal with this next scoot?
__________________
Current ride:
His & Hers Honda PCX 150s
CaptnJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 05:49 PM   #12
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnJim View Post
Sounds like the Honda PCX 150 comes close to all those dimensions... well, except more horse power, a lower seat height, and a stronger dealer network.

As I recall, that's on the list somewhere... but it is fun watching all the wheelin' and dealin'.

And that new Burgman 200 seems to be a slight step up from these, as well. Not being nosey, but... what's your end goal with this next scoot?

No real end goal. Just like owning lots of bikes and its a lot of fun. Usually I get a certain number I am happy with and keep them for years but I have been purging a lot of older ones and decided some of the newer stuff was not going to work out long term either. Not saying it makes any sense but I enjoy it.

The PCX150 puts out 13.5HP. The PCX125 puts out 11.7HP. Curb weight on the PCX is 278 lbs. So it looks like even the PCX125 will be faster then the Hooligan 170i. I think its the classic air cooled issue of being built to lessor tolerances and as a result the power just is not there. Its likely the Hooligan 170i will not come anywhere close to the same fuel economy as the PCX. Its highly variable on the PCX but I have gotten as high as 110 MPG on mine.

I still think the Hooligan 170i will be a great and cool scooter and perhaps you will end up getting more power out of the engine then what is published. However its the same price as the leading PCX. I think Genuine might be getting a little ahead of itself and thinking they are bigger then they really are. My crystal ball is telling this scooter should be no more then about $2,500. At its current $3,399 price point after fees and taxes its going to be over 4 grand. Its size and numbers on paper so far don't justify that. Even for me!

I should probably reserve final judgment until I test ride it but so far I am a bit disappointed. Funny thing is my nearest Genuine dealer did not seem all that excited about it either. First thing mentioned was they hope its a bit larger scooter then Genuine's current offerings.
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 06:30 PM   #13
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 4,534
I just can't see a Grom being comfortable for a full sized adult. The layout is different on a scooter. The Grom looks like a motorcycle for someone 4' tall.

I still don't see FI as an amenity. I now have 2 FI bikes and 3 carbed bikes. The FI bikes do not run or perform any better than the carbed bikes. My new RE Bullet has both FI AND a choke. I think the main difference is when something needs fixing, the carb will be a lot cheaper and easier to deal with.

I think my main concern with the Hooligan is that it is based on what was originally a 125cc motor. The Buddy 150s seemed to do fine, but 170 might just be pushing it a bit.
__________________
2002 Vulcan 750 (now being slowly reassembled) 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
2012 Zuma 125, 1980 Puch moped
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 07:25 PM   #14
6speed
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Oddometer: 28
Hey LH 747, Tortise mentioned to me that Lance is coming out with some new models. One is the Lance Cabo available as a 150. It has the look of the Yamaha Zuma/BeeWee and the specs are the same as the PCH just different tires and front fairing, FWIW.

You can find them on carolinafunmachines.com

6

Be well
6speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 08:26 PM   #15
longhaul747 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I just can't see a Grom being comfortable for a full sized adult. The layout is different on a scooter. The Grom looks like a motorcycle for someone 4' tall.

I still don't see FI as an amenity. I now have 2 FI bikes and 3 carbed bikes. The FI bikes do not run or perform any better than the carbed bikes. My new RE Bullet has both FI AND a choke. I think the main difference is when something needs fixing, the carb will be a lot cheaper and easier to deal with.

I think my main concern with the Hooligan is that it is based on what was originally a 125cc motor. The Buddy 150s seemed to do fine, but 170 might just be pushing it a bit.
Surprisingly the Grom fits full size adults just fine. I have sat on several now and was pleasantly surprised. I doubt it will hold up comfort wise after several hours but it is certainly rideable. Now practical? Probably not at all!

Carbs work and simple to engineer and keep many bikes at a lower price point plus the standard for a long time. However its 2014 and after owning several carbed bikes and fuel injected bikes its my opinion fuel injection is where its at. Carbs would probably be a non issue in warmer climates and real gasoline but lately they are kind of a nightmare. I am sure the EPA has a lot to do with it as well.

Now in a perfect world and if the carbs are well set up it really does not matter. My old Reflex was a good example. For the most part you could not tell if it was carbed or fuel injected and got 71 MPG. Only when it sat for a long time it was difficult to start. Most of the time you just had to crank it 4 or 5 times to prime the carb. However once it fowled a plug during the process but for the record it was an aged spark plug. Most bikes thanks to the EPA are not well set up. Of coarse same is true for fuel injection but at least they start as needed and most of the time don't mind the garbage they are trying to pass as gas.

Quote:
Hey LH 747, Tortise mentioned to me that Lance is coming out with some new models. One is the Lance Cabo available as a 150. It has the look of the Yamaha Zuma/BeeWee and the specs are the same as the PCH just different tires and front fairing, FWIW.

You can find them on carolinafunmachines.com

6

Be well
Some new stuff coming out that is cool. Probably not going to get Serious with Lance or Sym any time soon but that could quickly change once the dealer network and support is in full swing.

Right now I am in a holding pattern. The Hooligan is still a solid contender but I will have to see it in person and ride it. If its larger in stature then a Zuma or Agility and seems to have good power and fit and finish is first rate it could still happen. With 2 trades its not really that difficult to pull off but if I am not satisfied with what I see then I will go in a different direction.
longhaul747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014