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Old 03-04-2011, 01:37 PM   #16
PT Rider
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I really liked my Total Control course. I agree with the comments from RMZMZM, coppertop, and many of the other postings. The only dropped bike was one GS rider who dug in a corner of his pannier.

My feeling is that the MSF courses are OK but don't go far enough. I recommend TC highly.
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
I've taken the ARC and ARC II course. I thought both terrific.

What did you think of ARC2, specifically?
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:57 PM   #18
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Good refresher of I, plus more advanced drills and a lot of discussion about suspension setup.

There is also a Refresher offered at some venues.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Good refresher of I, plus more advanced drills and a lot of discussion about suspension setup.

There is also a Refresher offered at some venues.
I usually try to participate in some training at least once a year - preferably in the spring, to get the cobwebs out.

Over the years, I have done the MSF ERC, of course, as well as a Pridmore track school, BMW school and Lee Parks ARC.

If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend the ARC: there is a lot of training for the money. It it probably the least expensive training (outside of MSF). A the others mentioned, it concentrates on handling and turning the bike. I have done both levels, probably 4 times by now. Highly recommended.
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Old 03-05-2011, 05:04 PM   #20
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I usually try to participate in some training at least once a year - preferably in the spring, to get the cobwebs out.

Over the years, I have done the MSF ERC, of course, as well as a Pridmore track school, BMW school and Lee Parks ARC.

If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend the ARC: there is a lot of training for the money. It it probably the least expensive training (outside of MSF). A the others mentioned, it concentrates on handling and turning the bike. I have done both levels, probably 4 times by now. Highly recommended.
4 Times, Where do you take it?
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #21
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So here's the issue I'm trying to sort out.

I want to take a street-oriented bike class this year.

I've been looking at ARC.

I've also been looking at CLASS.

Both cost about the same, both fit well into my schedule.

I have no doubts that ARC is very effective and worthwhile training.

But would it be nearly as much fun as CLASS? ARC takes place in a parking lot. CLASS takes place on a racetrack.

No matter how good it is, I have a hard time imagining that a day of low-speed range exercises can be as entertaining as a day spent bombing around VIR.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:26 AM   #22
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But would it be nearly as much fun as CLASS? ARC takes place in a parking lot. CLASS takes place on a racetrack.

No matter how good it is, I have a hard time imagining that a day of low-speed range exercises can be as entertaining as a day spent bombing around VIR.
I did CLASS a couple of years ago and TCARC 1 and 2 last year. I would say it depends what you enjoy more, speed or increase in skill level. While there are classroom instructions at CLASS, the feedback on the track is limited. And it's mostly the practice where you develop your skills. TCARC also covers more topics than CLASS IIRC.

While both CLASS and TCARC helped me to become a better rider and were lots of fun, I personally enjoyed TCARC more.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
///

But would it be nearly as much fun as CLASS? ARC takes place in a parking lot. CLASS takes place on a racetrack.

No matter how good it is, I have a hard time imagining that a day of low-speed range exercises can be as entertaining as a day spent bombing around VIR.
I took a road racing course before I went to ARC.

I learned MUCH more at ARC and was MUCH faster on the track afterwards compared to the road racing course.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:19 PM   #24
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I had taken MSF Basic, Dirt Bike School, and MSF Experienced Rider Clinic prior to attending Total Control in Frederick MD.

I went there knowing that my bike could handle way more than I was comfortable asking from it. That mental obstacle was limiting me. It wasn't limiting me from going faster, it was limiting me from feeling confident enough to get myself out of a sticky situation if one arose (entering an unknown corner too fast, or finding debris mid-corner etc). I knew the bike could do more and I knew I would be a safer rider if I was able to take advantage of the full limits of my bike.

I had read the book and tried to practice some of the techniques on my own, but I was doing it incorrectly (mostly b/c I couldn't see myself while I was doing it). Coaching feedback at the class was tremendously helpful.
Also the mental aspect of the course helped a lot and still stays with me every bit as much as the physical techniques. Predator vs. Prey vision... accepting fear and doubt... the mind's eye when selecting corner entry... I think about that stuff almost every time I ride.

It's also worth noting that I took the class on a 250cc dual sport. One that had already become very acquainted with the ground (although mostly off-road). I knew that part of finding the limits of my bike might involve picking it up, so I geared up (motoport suit, sidi crossfires, and RevIt leather gloves) and set out with the full understanding that I was perfectly ready to drop my bike in pursuit of true understanding.
I think I got a lot more out of the practice time than anyone else in the class because of that. I'm not saying it's a requirement or anything, but think about it before you go.
If you do drop your bike it will be a low-impact lowside slide in a parking lot that will do very little damage to you or your bike. Seems like a minor trade off to help you understand your bikes limits and perhaps avoid a fatal accident on the road later. And frankly if you're on ADVrider.com and your bike isn't scratched yet, well then you're just not trying hard enough.

BTW, I pushed harder and harder on every exercise and still hadn't managed to lay my bike down. So I went last on the final Figure 8 exercise and just kept building speed until I accomplished that goal.
I know that was way more aggressive lean and speed than I would ever combine on the street. But now when I'm mid-way through a corner and something changes about the traffic or road surface ahead of me I know I have substantial traction in reserve to deal with it.

+1 for TC ARC reducing the number of rip marks in my seat from pucker factor!

I look forward to taking Level 2 this year and I will probably try to get my 20-year-old son into a level 1 class as well.
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:03 PM   #25
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I have been riding for 35 years, and prior to taking the Total Control ARC I had already been teaching the MSF BRC and ERC for four years, and teaching the ATV Classes for four years and the MSF Dirt Bike School for two years. I also was looking for improvement in my riding and skills, knowing that there were mental and physical things keeping me from getting better. I was not a sport bike guy and not ready for the race track. I took the ARC and was amazed at what I took from the class. After completion in April I signed up for the Penguin racing School. While I knew I learned a lot in the class I was not prepared for the real differance that showed when I went to the track. I took a 1991 Ninja 500, completly stock, and was the smallest bike there. I was a little worried, seeing all the full on sport bikes and some race ready that were also there. Come to find out I not only was able to hold my own, I passed most of the riders and lapped many as well. (I also never dragged a knee all day at the track) so I knew I was still not reaching the potential of the bike or myself.

What to do? Well The improvements I had already made were so huge, I signed up for the Instructor class, and spent four days working with Lee parks getting even better and learning even more. Now it seems I am not only better, smother and more in control, but the differeance shows in my bikes as well. Where I used to trash a rear tire on my Vmax in about 5,000 miles, I have over 12,000 miles on my current tires and it still is good for a couple more!. I see the same on the tires of my other bikes.

I learned a lot! More than I could have ever expected, I fully believe that this should be done by everyone no matter what type of riding they do!
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:54 PM   #26
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I did some searches and did not come up with much. I was wondering how many people here have taken the Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic? www.totalcontroltraining.net I also would like some thoughts from those who have. (I have been teaching it since 2006) I have traveled all over to teach, or help teach the class, from Washington and California to N.C., Tenn, and GA. to Maryland, N.Y. and N.H.

The Class was a real eye opener for me, especially being an MSF instructor that I saw the need for such training and got involved. Now when I have a free weekend or vacation time I use it to travel and teach where needed and requested when I can.
Can someone explain the skills day? Is it simply practicing what you learned the day before? Are the instructors present? I'm not seeing anything on the website that explains it.

Dave...
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:03 PM   #27
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Can someone explain the skills day? Is it simply practicing what you learned the day before? Are the instructors present? I'm not seeing anything on the website that explains it.

Dave...
Basically it is a day on the range practicing what you learned in level I, coaches are present and help you work on the area's you need work at.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:07 PM   #28
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I'm signed up for TCARC I on April 17 of this year. I can't wait!
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:02 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by F16Viper68 View Post
Can someone explain the skills day? Is it simply practicing what you learned the day before? Are the instructors present? I'm not seeing anything on the website that explains it.

Dave...

The one thing the TCARC class lacks is adequate practice time -- you only get a taste of each exercise. You do get an understanding of what should be happening, but not nearly enough practice time to actually get it right. (This is not a knock on the class at all, just the way it is -- they stuff a LOT of training into one day.)

The skills day should be considered mandatory, IMHO. It's an unstructured day on the same range to get all the practice you want on the elements that frustrated you the day before. The coaches are present to help you work on whatever you need help with.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:34 PM   #30
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The one thing the TCARC class lacks is adequate practice time -- you only get a taste of each exercise. You do get an understanding of what should be happening, but not nearly enough practice time to actually get it right. (This is not a knock on the class at all, just the way it is -- they stuff a LOT of training into one day.)

The skills day should be considered mandatory, IMHO. It's an unstructured day on the same range to get all the practice you want on the elements that frustrated you the day before. The coaches are present to help you work on whatever you need help with.
Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense to me. Now if I could just find one that's close and works with my crazy work schedule.

Dave...
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