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Old 07-03-2008, 06:50 AM   #1
xdbx OP
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xr650r kick starting problem

I need a "quick" answer, and thumpertalk's not helping

Help?

Quote:
Just aquired an '01 xr650r a few days ago. Parts started rolling in, and prior to installing the Jardine slipon, I had no problems starting. It was simple to TDC, Decomp lever past, and kick.

Now that the pipe is on (but not necissarily because of it?) I will kick to TDC, decomp past it, and when I go to kick full force, I hit another spot where the lever stops. I've injured myself quite badly a few times, but once this second compression stage is passed, it may or may not provide a full kick before reaching a stopping point again.

What is going on? Has the pipe done something to cause this?
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:52 AM   #2
Crit Rat
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Weird.

If it were me I'd take the pipe off and try starting without a silencer or with the stock back on.

Did you make any other changes at the same time?

You aren't in gear are you?
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdbx
I need a "quick" answer, and thumpertalk's not helping

Help?
I am fairly new to the XRR ownership but I suspect that the kick start is jamming when it reaches TDC and that you are not actually finding the true TDC before kicking. Several of my first attempts to start the bike resulted in a similar result to yours and it could<(as you know) be quite painful.
My current routine for a cold bike is:
switch the kill switch to off
Petrol on (obvious to some but not always to me)
Set choke to full
Pull the decompressor leaver in and kick it over 5 times
Let the decomp lever out and ease the engine over TDC
Switch kill switch on
Making sure that I do not touch the throttle I kick firmly down
and to my amazement the bike usually starts.
If it fires but does not start I move the choke to the half position and kick again and it will start.
There is an absolute mountain of info available on this site and from its links
Try the FAQ link
http://www.xr650r.us/
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:21 PM   #4
arrcrussell
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When you kick over your xr650r and you find a sudden stop due to compression stroke coming up on TDC, most likley your auto-decomp is not working. Properly adjusted exhaust valves on an XR650R will not close completely and you shouldn't get the sudden stop at compression stroke. The auto-decomp holds one of the exhaust valves slightly open (can't remeber if its l or r) at very low rpms (<800) for easy kick starting - once above 800 rpm, it disengages. When adjsuting the valves, be certain to follow the shop manual precisely to insure the valves are properly set and thus the auto-decomp will work. Someone on a prior post had a working description of the auto-decomp from an XR600 manual - try to find it.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:01 PM   #5
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I have the shop manual, and will do so, thank you for the recommendation.

The problem at hand is different though. The auto-decompression and starting procedure WAS WORKING AS DESIGNED prior to the long mod session. This leads me to believe it was either something I messed with, or something that unintentionally messed with that is causing this.

I've not had the motor apart, or anything of the sort. Simple bolt on stuff like forks, repacking bearings, new plastic, gas tank, etc.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:24 PM   #6
utah1
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Welcome to the scarred shin club! After about a 100 times starting the pig it will just come easy, just a small a short learning curve. Sometimes it is best best to start it out on a hill and just roll start. Then you go and tip it over on it's side and all bets are off.
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:43 PM   #7
hezekiahmunson
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That is a disturbing picture. That is probably from starting a flooded KX500 though, not XRR.

Mine bike does the same thing where I think I just pushed it past TDC and then half way through the kick it stops. Man that makes me $#*!&%$*! mad. I would love to figure out what does that.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:35 PM   #8
xdbx OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahmunson
That is a disturbing picture. That is probably from starting a flooded KX500 though, not XRR.

Mine bike does the same thing where I think I just pushed it past TDC and then half way through the kick it stops. Man that makes me $#*!&%$*! mad. I would love to figure out what does that.
Please share your bike's current state of tune. Aftermarket pipe specifically?
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xdbx
Please share your bike's current state of tune. Aftermarket pipe specifically?
I dont even mess with the de-comp. it is a lot easier to feel tdc without imho...

I rarely choke either, just a kick or two and she fires. With the choke, i have 4x's the work.

uncorked, fmf2...dunno jets, she runs like an angry drunk bull....

If i baby the kick AT all, she won't comply. Full downward kick, regardless of speed and she fires. And, i never think about my shin....
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:37 AM   #10
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Bumping this up, picked up another 650r (had one some years ago), and this one does the same thing

I've had a 650r before, 600r, currently have a 400r as well, and neither of them exhibited these this symptom

I've read about mention of a bushing on the clutch basket that may be causing it to bind?

Anyone with more input?

Thank you
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:22 AM   #11
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Perhaps your second sticking point is because of a detonation. Maybe the low end is too lean? Stock carbs? Have they had the decel mod?

Sounds weird. Perhaps take a look at the ignition pick up and make sure it isn't loose, causing an advance in timing.

Have you tried keeping the decomp lever in until part way through the kick? It takes coordination, but might help.
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
Perhaps your second sticking point is because of a detonation. Maybe the low end is too lean? Stock carbs? Have they had the decel mod?

Sounds weird. Perhaps take a look at the ignition pick up and make sure it isn't loose, causing an advance in timing.

Have you tried keeping the decomp lever in until part way through the kick? It takes coordination, but might help.
have not tried keeping the decomp lever in, will try it

Taking the clutch basket out and look if I can see anything binding up, but looks ok. Going to take the valve cover off too

stock carb, looks to have been uncorked at some point

bought the bike two days ago, not running, but has very very (very) low miles, it is a 2000, and I am afraid it has been sitting for a while

already rebuilt and cleaned up the carb
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:11 AM   #13
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Not sure exactly how far you are moving the lever until the second sticking point. With mine I can wind the over round easily until it stops. Without the decamp lever I can use steady pressure to push the lever slowly to a second point where the lever stops again. this is maybe a 3 inch movement of the lever. At this point I return the lever to the top and kick it through.

If I pull the decomp it is much easier to push the lever to the 2nd sticking point but also easier to miss it and go beyond. I usually pull the decomp slightly to release the pressure and get the lever moving then let it out so I feel the second stop.

I don't know whether this is normal for an XRR but it works for me and is similar to the procedure I have used on other big singles in the past. Some of them have had no auto decomp at all, including the rotax 604 engine. On that one though you could pull the decamp all the way in then let it go. It would stay in until the engine was wound to the right place where it would pop out.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:38 AM   #14
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thanks. my xr4 does not have auto decomp, i believe the previous bikes did not have it here, but pretty sure this one does

not really looking to spend money on a hotcam

will try what you suggested before I dig in deeper, I hope its all good
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:02 PM   #15
crypto666
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I lost my autodecomp with a cam swap and haven't missed it at all. In fact, I think it forced me to learn to start the bike more correctly.

One of the previous posts made a good point; when it sticks the second time can you feel it leak down, as in it is compression that is stopping it and not some mechanical interference?
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