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Old 08-06-2005, 07:47 PM   #31
Dysco
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Bump! I'm trying to read up for Cloudcroft.
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Old 11-29-2008, 05:30 PM   #32
utopia
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Laugh

Thanks Ned, and everyone else...I'm looking forward to riding my first enduro in the spring and after a little searching I came across this thread. The timekeeping makes alot more sense now, but I'll probably have to read it about 10 more times to get it all.

It really won't sink in for me until I ride one. I was thinking of getting a fancy enduro odometer, but after reading all that I think I'll stick to the basics and just use an odo with a clock and a rollchart. That will be about all my brain can handle.

Does anyone have any recommendations for an odometer that will display the mileage and clock at the same time? I was thinking about a Trailtech Vector odometer because it also has a remote switch for the handlebar and it does have a speedometer which I would like to have to keep my semi-street legal bike semi-street legal. But it looks like the clock numers are kind of small. Any other recommendations?

Greg



PS Ned, love my new XCW. Due to unusual lack of early snow here in the valley, I got to ride it twice last week.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:22 PM   #33
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Just a regular speedo will do, like the Trail Tech standard speedo. For a clock you can pick up a wrist watch from Wal-Mart. Make sure your watch has seconds and minutes displayed at the same time. I use one as a back up duck taped on top my bar pad.

If you can come across a stock modern KTM speedo (the skinny one) from ebay you can program it to show mileage with tenths and real time clock with seconds at the same time. But they are expensive and rare.

You might even be able to pick up an older generation enduro computer. I'm still using an 80's vintage ICO Pro3. It handles speed average changes, mid race pauses, etc.

Once you get all dude-ed up with timekeeping the best thing to do is get to the start line and pick some other smart looking bloke with some enduro equipment and just cue off him. We call that time leaching. Try to pick an 'A' rider. Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't get in his way.

Just ride and have fun.

- c bob
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:12 PM   #34
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Hi, sorry for my stupid question, I did my first enduro this past Oct. It was really fun, I never had armpump and cramping so bad before but it was worth it.

My question in your example of a roll chart it has the minute next to the mileage. Is that normal on all roll charts? The one I had didn't have that.

Is each of the entries a possible check?

I did manage to zero 4 checks and burn 2 by 3min, I just tried to keep moving and not stop. I had no clue what I was doing,(still don't). Anyways I'm trying to get a grip on doing this timekeeping for next year.

Thanks.

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Old 12-04-2008, 05:32 PM   #35
cbob
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Most enduros in the Southeast will have a route sheet with turns, mileages and time in the rider pack. Sometimes you have to ask for it. Sometimes they have a generic route sheet you can buy.

The race starts at, say, 9am on a 24 mph average. That's a mile every 5 minutes, a tenth of a mile every 15 seconds, 4 tenths to a minute and so on (after doing these for 20 years you start thinking like this). The club can put a check anywhere there is an even tenth at the top of a minute. Well, almost anywhere. There's some other rules, but that's the basic one.

First, set your watch so that when you leave your watch says 9:00 (or whatever start time is). If your start time is 9:54 then you set your watch 54 minutes behind key time (to the second). When your enduro watch rolls up to 9:00am it's really 9:54 on the clock in the truck. You'd better be on the line ready to go.

* * 24 MPH * *
1. 0.0 START 9:00:00
2. 1.2 RPR 9:03:00
3. 2.6 LWR 9:06:30
4. 3.0 RESET TO 5.0
5. 5.0 SWR 9:12:30
6. 5.1 RWT 9:12:45
7. 14.9 RESET TO 24.8
8. 24.8 SWT 10:02:00
9. 24.8 CHANGE TO 30 MPH
10. 25.2 XDR 10:02:48
11. 32.4 SWT 10:17:24
12. 32.4 RESET TO 39.9
13. 32.7 LPL 10:33:00


This is just an example I made up in my head (and my brain hurts!). Imagine 3 columns of this stuff. You'll need scissors, scotch tape and a highlighter or two to turn it all into one big long strip then roll it up into an Enduro Engineering (or other brand) route sheet holder.

The first reset is simply to push the mileage forward so they can put a check at 5.2. How do you know there will be a check at 5.2? Because after that there is nothing but WT (woods trail) for almost 9 miles!

Next check is at 14.8. How do we know? Because there is a big whopping reset at 14.9 and 14.8 is the first tenth before that at the top of a minute (:00). You should be at 14.8 at exactly 9:37:00 but don't worry, you'll be plenty late.

The reset at 14.9 will give you a chance to rest, catch a drink, talk to some buds, massage some forearms, etc. You'll need to advance your odometer to 24.8. Here's a hint: You'll notice a gaggle of riders all sitting around like a little tea party. They are waiting for their minute to come up so they can get going again. *IF* you were Russell Bobbit you could expect to wait 25 minutes. Your wait time varies with your woods speed.

At 24.8 miles they up the ante with a faster speed average - 30 mph. Mostly they do that to make sure to take points, or if it's a bunch of WR (woods road) they might put in a faster average. It makes mental math a whole lot harder too. Just ride faster.

If by some chance you start passing riders that are just poking along, turn around and look what row they are on. If they are on a row lower than yours you'd better slow down or you could burn a check. If they are trying to go fast then they are just slower. It's pretty obvious when a rider is going 10 mph on a wide open dirt road.

At 25.3 you find another check. You know why - 8 miles of WT ahead!

And, of course, another check at 32.3. Only 7 miles but at 30 mph it should only take 14 minutes! You have a 15 minute rest (probably more like 5 depending on your speed). Don't forget to advance your odo.

Sometimes instead of RESET they will use PAUSE. A PAUSE is exactly what it sounds like - at xx.x mileage sit and wait yy minutes. It could look like this:

10. 25.2 XDR 10:02:48
11. 32.4 SWT 10:17:24
12. 32.4 PAUSE 15 MIN
13. 32.7 LPL 10:33:00

So instead of the odo advancing you sit and wait for your watch to get ahead.

Either way, pay attention to the guys with all the enduro doo-dads and what row they are on, especially if they are on your row. And if you ever see a 15 mph average you are in for a really good time.

I hope that helps.

- c bob
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:35 PM   #36
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BTW - I started out riding WNYERA enduros. Furthest East on our schedule was Speedsville NY, outside of Binghamton. That was a nasty muddy one . . . .

- c
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:26 PM   #37
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Thanks cbob. I just went to a hs in Belden, NY not too far from binghampton.
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:11 AM   #38
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Great stuff, cbob. Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:53 PM   #39
GOT DIRT?
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After reading this, I still want to try an enduro next year.
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:47 PM   #40
Knute Dunrvnyet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbob
BTW - I started out riding WNYERA enduros. Furthest East on our schedule was Speedsville NY, outside of Binghamton. That was a nasty muddy one . . . - c
Yeah, Speedsville Nat'l was a finicky one-
sometimes it would be a mudbath due to summer t-storms;
other years, it was a dry, 8 hour HS.
I earned my B rider points
via a 7th in the under 200 class on my IT175
@ one of those dry years.

There's nothing more intimidating than starting an enduro in a torrential downpour: been there, done that, it's not always fun.
it's interesting that I continued to ride enduros-
'cuz it feels so good when ye stop.'
Well, the rewards are great.

The only, ONLY time I got a 1st, [in my class,] was w/ the IT175,
@ Square Deal's 'Bear Swamp Enduro' 'way back when,
in the dark and distant past, circa '79-'80ish.

[Did any of you attend the short track races at Afton Fairgrounds during the same time period, late 70s-early 80s?
Sometimes they'd get Nat'l Dirt Track riders,
when the ST was the Sat nite before the Syr. Mile.
Gosh, those were the days.]


If I recall, "Brand X," didn't penalize ye for being early-
but then you had to work offa that earlier time/number.
Check me, I may be wrong, it's been a long time.
[Of course, I wasn't savvy/skillfull enuff, back then, to have to worry about that.]

When ye first start riding Enduros, it seems the rule is:
'Ride as fast as you can until you are an hour late.'

Enduros are great fun, a great way to get to ride new trails.
In my 'retirement,' I ride my TW200- if I finish within my time, I'm good-
and the organizing club seems to love it:
"Wow, here comes the guy on the TW!"
Well I ain't doing it for them, I'm doing it for ME.
[In a PA enduro, in coal country,
I was down 39 minutes over a ten mile section,
on my TW -
- but I finished!]

Dog, enduros are fun!!!

Question: how many inmates come to this site/sport from
the off-road racing side?
What kind of crossover, in either direction,
i.e., dirt to adv, or adv to dirt,
is our demographic?
[but that's another thread...]

thanks, Neduro!


Knute
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:14 PM   #41
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Eek

Wow it's worse than I thought. I don't have the skill to ride an enduro *and* I don't even have the ability to comprehend the timekeeping.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:08 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravē
Wow it's worse than I thought. I don't have the skill to ride an enduro *and* I don't even have the ability to comprehend the timekeeping.
+1
I'm also probably too old and out of shape.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:44 AM   #43
cbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTyankee
+1
I'm also probably too old and out of shape.
It's all a matter of "want to". I'm 55 and I want to bad enough I go to the gym. My limit is 1 hr - 30 min of weights (alternate each day with legs one and upper body) and 30 min of aerobics. Do what you can and you don't even notice the getting in shape part - It just happens.

The trick is to force yourself to change the habit. My gym clothes go in the bike (I ride to work). I can't go home until I stop off at the gym first. If I go home it's over.

"Don't complain, just train". It takes less time than you think.

Can't ride because of snow on the ground? CROSS TRAINING! I love skiing. Too bad anything South of WV is ice skiing.

We even have a class for riders 66 yrs & older. I just hope I still want to at that age.

Too old . . . . LOL!

- c bob
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:15 PM   #44
spidennis
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the most points wins right?

we should have a video game / simulator made up to help learn timekeeping!

I myself don't worry much about the time, or what place I come in. It's just fun to tackle the course, or the other way around! I thought the most points wins? Isn't there a trophy for that? I'm usually easy to spot, I'm the guy taking photos along the way! and that really kills any timekeeping, that along with the fact I just can't seem to let a downed rider go without a lending hand of some kind, whether it's pulling someone out of a lake or mud hole, dropping off my tool kit or a tow rope or handing out a gatoraide (i usually carry two or three on my rear fender bag). I remember being helped out in my first several enduros, and that really made an impression, so now, still a beginner, try to help out as I can. In texas, all the events are far apart, which means the terrain varies greatly, and riding all kinds of terrain is what it's all about for me. Not knowing what the next second has in store for you is the spice of running an enduro event! My goal someday is to hit as many enduros around the country as I can possibly do before i die. If there's one way to see the countryside of the us of a, then this is it! If I someday catch on to this time keeping thing, well , that might be fun too ....
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:28 PM   #45
rthuey
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just got wind of this after my first enduro.

beginning of a new season for everyone so bump
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