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Old 03-10-2011, 07:33 PM   #76
Drunken Squirrel
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Joined: Mar 2009
Location: DFW Area, TX
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Before I read this thread at work I was thinking about what a boring day it was and about some female coworkers fine ass.... Needless to say after reading the beginning of this thread the reality of what we do day in and day out... riding for adventure, sanity or salvation sunk in. What we do is risky but worth it (as I'm sure Joe would agree). Honestly I am jealous of what he has accomplished and experienced!

On a side note... the amount of force required to stop a front tire on gravel at speed without weight transfer is minimal. If you blip your front brakes at speed they will immediately lock the wheel, most of us are trained to gradually ease onto the brakes to induce weight transfer and increase the braking capabilities of the front tire. The sudden grab of the brake line can easily cause the momentary loss of traction and once the tire was slipping the force becomes less and less as the bike leans over... therefore I am not surprised the brake line looks undamaged after the incident

Edit: What he said above... faster typer than me :)
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:38 PM   #77
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So glad you are ok Chi. That was nuts.

Do you think manufacturers actually pay attention to brand forums like ours? They really should. It would be great to have them respond to this and other threads.

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"How hard can it be?"
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:42 PM   #78
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Sorry to hear and glad you are OK. A real eye opener. I am going to look at reinforcing the loop so it can't bend into the tire...
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:55 PM   #79
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Location: Denver Pa
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Glad you're in one piece. I noticed a pretty good hit in the front rim while in the back of the truck. Could be an old ding.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:12 PM   #80
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Ouch...Ouch....OUCH!! Goodness sakes....Chi. So glad you're going to be ok! Realize, you didn't have much of a choice. But, appears to me you did a pretty darn good job at sliding & protecting yourself (somehow), instead of bouncing and rolling every which way. Makes me want to start wearing my Koerta Pressure suit every single day (which I haven't been).

I think maybe it is a good idea to stick with these lower profile TKC knobs, after seeing this incident. Looks like the brake line caught on the side knobby. Maybe we can zip-tie (spread) our crossover cable a hair wider, as a precaution. I'll have to study mine closer.

Also, finally feel better about spending that ridiculous amount of money for the TT fender raise w/ longer crossover line. I might have more lateral play to work with.

'13 Husky TR650 Terra, '11 Husaberg FE390, '10 KTM 450 XCW Six Days, '12 BMW R1200GS
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:35 PM   #81
Indy Unlimited
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Location: Parker, CO
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You are one amazing rider ChiTown! Glad you survived this one!

My theory is the knobbies picked up a large enough rock and caused the front wheel to stop and break the front fender. Cant see the rock in the video but there has to be something that wedged in between the tire and the fender. Nothing to do with the brake line IMO. But why were the brakes locked up?
The fender broke off nicely and you should be able to find it and look inside for a rock cut or pressure spot.
Current Stable:

2013 Ducati Hypermotard SP, 2011 Husaberg FE570S, 2011 BMW S1000RR, 2010 BMW F800GS
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Indy Unlimited screwed with this post 03-11-2011 at 05:11 AM
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:44 PM   #82
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Location: Berthoud, CO
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OUCH!! - That's what I said also when I watched the video. Glad that you are relatively OK.

Good detective work on the mark on the tire and the bent rim. Also noted that the brake line is leaning forward of its usual position. The brake line has a woven steel sheath that is crimped into the end fittings; the sheath keeps it from stretching under normal use. BTW, if you rebuild the bike replace that brake line.

Chi, met you in Dawson June 2009 at the campground in town. I was/am riding a yellow F800GS also. A week later I crashed on the Dalton - also lucky - help showed up right away. My insurance company totaled the bike - most of the repair cost was going to be replacing the scratched plastic. I bought it for salvage $ and fixed what needed fixing. The scratched panels are battle scars. Some of your's look broken; I've seen scratched ones on eBay recently.

Take care of yourself and that wrist -- you don't want it bothering you the rest of your life.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood. -- Tom Robbins
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:55 PM   #83
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Stingray bay CA.
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What if this happened on a busy L.A. freeway? in front of a truck? You wouldn't know what hit you and you wouldn't be telling this story, just another motorcyclist killed on the road who lost control. In the dirt with a camera, you could be saving some lives with this. Send it to the top of BMW NA. Whether it was a rock or a piece of a truck tire or it just broke or came loose, that shouldn't be the result.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:55 PM   #84
Lion BR
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Location: Oregon
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Originally Posted by The Griz View Post
+1 I think that brake line would be ripped off of the bike if it was the culprit. But then again, I'm drunk so....

Yeah, it seems like that to me as well. But it is too early for me to be drunk here on the west coast.

But besides brake lines being such a strong item (obvious safety issues, brake lines should outlive the bike) the sudden acceleration of the snagging action has a few attenuates that could explain why it did not snap:
1) the angle in which the tire motion pulled the line is favorable to the line, and its angle of attachment at the brake assembly;
2) the tire and knobbie probably absorbed the first impact by deforming some;
3) it happened on a dirt road, so locking the tire did not offer as much resistance as it would on pavement.


(I edited to keep only the factual options.)
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Lion BR screwed with this post 03-11-2011 at 08:06 AM
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:07 PM   #85
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Holy Fuck!!!! that was NVTS nuts. glad you are ok....damn.... you are lucky... now go light a candle...bigman is watching out for you..
I thought YOU had the map......
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:15 PM   #86
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Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
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Chi, I wish you a speedy recovery. Glad to hear you're much better than I anticipated after watching the video.

Originally Posted by EnderTheX View Post
On a side note... the amount of force required to stop a front tire on gravel at speed without weight transfer is minimal. If you blip your front brakes at speed they will immediately lock the wheel, most of us are trained to gradually ease onto the brakes to induce weight transfer and increase the braking capabilities of the front tire. The sudden grab of the brake line can easily cause the momentary loss of traction and once the tire was slipping the force becomes less and less as the bike leans over... therefore I am not surprised the brake line looks undamaged after the incident
+1 - I think you're spot on, Ender.

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Old 03-10-2011, 10:36 PM   #87
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I am convinced the brake line did it. Not only marks on the tire but a close look a pic 4, shows the abrasion on the line itself. Now what jammed into the fender? All the supports for it are in place so no loose screws. I can't think of anything but a rock wedging in there, but I sure don't see any before the fender flys off, that look like suspects.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:57 AM   #88
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Location: Suburban SacTown
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I go out of town a few days, miss the daily Finn updates, and see what I miss...

Joe, heal up - so glad you are ok. Of all the crazy places you've been, the moose collision being my favorite, you were just cruisin'. Had I not seen the video....

And setting aside the bike damage, hassle, losing the bike, etc - I'm damn glad you had the video going. Cause you are right, I never would have believed it happened the way it did. It was surreal to watch. And you clearly had the senses knocked out of you - I would have been unleashing many profanities.

Kudos for wearing the designer gear.

You sir, are a constant source of "learning" and entertainment. You are definitely making your mark on this world. Take care - and I need not say cheer up because you definitely have the positive outlook going - I love it.

That which you manifest is before you - Enzo.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:22 AM   #89
Joined: Jul 2010
Oddometer: 201
First things first - good to read that under the circumstances you came away 'relatively' unscathed from what appears to be a horrendous crash. Ten out of ten for that riding gear of yours.........I don't think mine would have stood up to it that well.

Having looked at the video umpteen times as well as taken a close look at my own bike I'm tempted to take the chicken and egg approach - i.e. what came first. The cross line is outside of the fender so whether or not the line came into contact with the tyre is secondary as with the fender in situ it physically can't. So the first question is, what made the fender break off in such an explosive manner? My own guess, and let's face it we're all just guessing here, is that something solid became trapped between it and the tyre exerting such a force as to cause the fender to immediately shatter in such a dramatic way.

With the wheel having a forward direction and the cross pipe being stationary my guess would be that whatever caused the fender to shatter would have moved forward, away from the cross pipe. Alternatively, if positioned behind the pipe at initial jamming point it could conceivably become trapped between the tyre and the pipe itself. There is yet another alternative, and that being in the process of shattering part of the fender itself became momentarily lodged between the tyre and either the pipe or the legs.

Reading through the thread there appears to be alternating views as to whether the cross pipe itself made contact with the tyre and I myself am tending to the opinion that it didn't. There just doesn't seem to be enough evidence from the images alone in terms of damage/marks to support the view of the pipe making physical contact with the tyre. Something jamming between the two i.e. rock or piece of broken fender I think is the more likely cause.

I've no way of knowing how the system works over there, or indeed how involved insurance companies get, but a good accident investigator should be able to reconstruct the sequence of events by inspection of the pipes, tyre and of course the remains of the fender to determine the point of fracture. Under the circumstances, and the condition you were in, I don't suppose thought was given to collecting all the bits and pieces.....or was it?

Anyway - once again glad to hear that your injuries are not life-threatening. I wish you a speedy recovery and trust that you have not suffered any permanent damage. Chin up.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:24 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by bloochdog View Post
Dude ! Glad you a still breathing. If it is worth anything it looks cool without the fender... Still cannot get the vid to roll..

we have a winner!
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--May well come to that.
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