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Old 03-11-2011, 03:01 AM   #91
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Location: Northern NSW
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Originally Posted by AlanI View Post
Having looked at the video umpteen times as well as taken a close look at my own bike I'm tempted to take the chicken and egg approach - i.e. what came first. The cross line is outside of the fender so whether or not the line came into contact with the tyre is secondary as with the fender in situ it physically can't. So the first question is, what made the fender break off in such an explosive manner? My own guess, and let's face it we're all just guessing here, is that something solid became trapped between it and the tyre exerting such a force as to cause the fender to immediately shatter in such a dramatic way.

With the wheel having a forward direction and the cross pipe being stationary my guess would be that whatever caused the fender to shatter would have moved forward, away from the cross pipe. Alternatively, if positioned behind the pipe at initial jamming point it could conceivably become trapped between the tyre and the pipe itself. There is yet another alternative, and that being in the process of shattering part of the fender itself became momentarily lodged between the tyre and either the pipe or the legs.

Reading through the thread there appears to be alternating views as to whether the cross pipe itself made contact with the tyre and I myself am tending to the opinion that it didn't. There just doesn't seem to be enough evidence from the images alone in terms of damage/marks to support the view of the pipe making physical contact with the tyre. Something jamming between the two i.e. rock or piece of broken fender I think is the more likely cause.
Firstly Chi I'm glad you made it through a big crash without too much damage. It is a reminder to us all that you should dress appropriately, because you never know what might happen. You can get blaise and we shouldn't because some things just aren't predictable.

Secondly, I don't know if all the speculation is of any use at this stage, we weren't there and its probably a bit early for you to come to terms with it, it takes a while to really get your head around it.

Despite that I have to agree with AlanI at this stage and think that your front wheel picked up something (a rock I guess, but who knows) which with the natural rotation of the wheel was jammed between the wheel and the mudguard probably just behind where the cross pipe on the brakes is shattering the mudguard and possibly momentarily squeezing the brake line causing the wheel to lock resulting in your crash. It's only speculation but the way the mudguard gets thrown ahead of the bike sort of implies a big impact. I don't know if this is true ... I wasn't there, but it seems to fit.

If this scenario is close to what happened what can we learn? Firstly you are probably very unlucky for something like that to happen to you. Secondly you were very wise to have all that good gear to protect yourself. Thirdly ... perhaps the cross over brake hose is not a good idea, and two hoses would be better, and perhaps low mudguards on real dual sports arent a very good idea either.

You really have been a great beta tester for this model, sort of like an early jet fighter test pilot and I expect that a lot of people have benifited from what you have discovered, it's just a shame about the cost. I'll just say thanks!
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Bourke Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:15 AM   #92
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Chi, my sympathies - very literally.
Two weeks ago I had a somewhat parallel crash - 300 miles from home ; got spat off down a dirt/gravel road at 45-50 mph ; damage to left side of bike (and left side of me). Was travelling alone (but with my GPS-EPIRB) - but fortunately no broken bones, and the bike was still rideable (passenger footpeg intact). Barkbusters definitely helpful, too.

However, no question about the cause - a suddenly-appearing representative of local wildlife managed to intersect with my front wheel & fender, leaving some of his fur in the cracks in the fender, before quietly expiring from remorse (or massive internal bleeding). Otherwise, it was a "bloodless coup" (except for me).

Why am I posting?
(a) To express condolences & the hope that you will continue to update us on your physical and mechanical recovery.

(b) To emphasize ATGATT - where I was rather lacking : it was a damn hot day, and my heavy jacket was strapped on the back of the bike "so I wouldn't get heatstroke". Poor decision.

My chest & arms were "protected" by two layers - a polyester shirt & a (thin) nylon-mesh jacket. Fortunately, my legs had Draggin Jeans and Fox shin/kneeguards underneath, and so suffered very little. (My thinking has been that, off the beaten track, if you break an arm - you still have a good chance of walking back to civilization : but with a broken leg . . . . it could well be "curtains".)

Needless to say, I have ordered a "pressure suit" mesh jacket with inbuilt CE protection, and I'll have to come to a new accommodation with the climate.
Thigh-bone / neck-of-femur protection is still a vexed issue for really hot weather - and heatstroke death is not unheard of for motorcyclists, either as outright cause or as contributing factor to a crash.

BTW, my full-face helmet did well in saving my face from "biting the dust".
Replacement new helmet already bought.

(c) A chance to grumble about "low" front fender design on adventure-tourers.
Looks good in the showroom. Deals well with the rain and the minor spray of road filth.
But for an adventure-tourer encountering mud buildup and/or loose rocks?

A fender really needs to be at least a couple of inches higher.
Or if the sleek "hugger" look is needed for the showroom sales - then design-in a higher "alternative" bolting position [maybe even a two-piece fender, so the rear piece can be rotated up a bit more when bolted in the high position].
Or have the fender removable altogether [perhaps even with that rear piece boltable somewhere in front of the center of the radiator].

And any of this would require a much higher "crossover" in the brake lines.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:22 AM   #93
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DAMN. just damn
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:35 AM   #94
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The more spiritual may say you have unfinished business here on earth, some less spiritual might say "Back for another round of this mess, eh?"

Glad you are here to tell the tale Chi - I can't believe you captured it on video! What "luck".
"An expert is someone who has made every mistake possible within a very narrow field of inquiry"
-Niels Bohr
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:47 AM   #95
around the bend
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Chi - glad you walked away - that was a big hit and health could have easily been more infringed. Hope your wrist gets sorted without too much more slow down. Money and bikes will be replaced.
There is a pleasure in the pathed woods, There is a rapture in the smoking pipe, There is chaos, where none intrudes, in the deep dell, with its thrills roar; I love not nature less, but bikes the more. Byron riding.

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Old 03-11-2011, 08:07 AM   #96
Lighten up this is Fun
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Excellent read. Wow, that was quick with NO warning. I'm glad you had the forethought to be dressed for the slide. That hard packed gravel is more trecherous than smooth pavement with the impacted large rocks. Looks like that's what got you on the waist.

Fortunately I don't have the x-over problem on my "thumper GS" to deal with. If I did own a 800GS with the dual calipers, I'd be eliminating that issue by moving the line splitter up the forks and securing it down the back of the forks to the individual caliper.

As for the plastic fender, it doesn't appear to be up to the requirement of high-speed dual sporting. Maybe too much flex that close to an aggressive off-road tyre. I'd be looking for a way to move the mudguard away of the tyre or trim back the length to reduct the possibility of it flexing into the tyre.

Hope you are mending well and your fortunate to have the gap insurance on any new bike. Most financing is upside down as so as you take possession.
"Misdirected inertia is sure to have dangerous if not catastrophic results"
'11 R1200GS
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:30 AM   #97
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As others have said, Holy F***!

Glad you're mostly ok and the gear did its job. Hope the hand/wrist is Ok.

The bike appears to be less ok, but you're insured, so its their problem now

A very strange failure mode....
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:30 AM   #98
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This is amazing!

I'm so glad the dirt ATTGAT message is getting out.
Thank you, this thread has so many insightful, caring, and overall positive responses.
Thank you all for the well wishes, prayers, and good vibes sent my way. I actually am feeling less sore as time goes on, and expect to be back riding very soon.

Thanks to my boutique gear, and some luck, just being banged up instead of more seriously injured, it's also crazy luck that video was rolling at the time of impact so I could share this, not only to prove what happened, but to demonstrate why a person should wear the best gear they can for the type of riding they do.

I would rather not have this kind of attention, believe me, but as long as something positive comes out it, I'm happy with the cards I've been dealt.


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Old 03-11-2011, 08:33 AM   #99
Ceri JC
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Have watched the vid and read the thread.

Firstly, glad to hear you are without serious injuries.

Secondly, as someone who just bought a Thor Impact Rig SE himself, I am glad to see how well it works (although naturally I'd rather you hadn't had to test it).

Thirdly, put my bet on the cause down to a rock getting stuck between two knobs, then hitting the inside of the fender hard enough to tear it off, then the (now uncovered) x-over brake line catching another knob and locking the front.

The next bit is a bit of the case of "after the horse has bolted" for Chi, but for the rest of us...

I have been paranoid about this happening since I got the bike. Winter before last, running snow chains on road tyres I was extra paranoid, but got away with it. Likewise, riding offroad the threat of mud locking it up was always there. I then fitted the TT fender riser kit a few weeks back, and hoped this would fix it, but reading MCMXCIVRS' experience (and looking with a critical eye at my own bike), I can see that it is still a danger. I had forgotten all about the great guide here. Depending on how much more heavily I get into offroading, I think I will do this.
I like my bike because I can overtake 4x4s down farm tracks with a week's worth of shopping on the back.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:36 AM   #100
I need a cape....
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Good to see that you will be around to ride again. Sorry the beast it dead...again. you seem to be the master of F800 resurrections, so I'm waiting to see how it pans out...
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:43 AM   #101
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I wonder how many TouraTech high-fender kits are going to be sold because of your crash? You should get a cut.
Scott - Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '05.5 KTM 950 Adventure
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:47 AM   #102
Lost Rider OP
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Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
I wonder how many TouraTech high-fender kits are going to be sold because of your crash? You should get a cut.

I was thinking the same thing... maybe I could sell them the video to use as FOX news fear type marketing!

Think this video could make it to the show "When Vacations Attack!" ?

Lost Rider screwed with this post 03-11-2011 at 08:53 AM
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:59 AM   #103
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All i can say is WOW!

I am glad that you are in good spirits and did not get seriously hurt!

After seeing that ... i am defintely getting me a good pair of riding pants to go with the rest of my gear!
Always looking for a place to ride !
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:07 AM   #104
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Would this have happened to a F650GS?

I know we are all speculating about the possible cause for this on Chi's F800GS. I am not interested in starting another 650 vs 800 debate. I am just asking you guys if you think the same would have happened to a 650 given its lack of crossover for the non-existing second caliper?
"An expert is someone who has made every mistake possible within a very narrow field of inquiry"
-Niels Bohr
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:10 AM   #105
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Location: Severn, MD & Romney, WV
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Glad You're Okay

Holy cow, you did hit hard. Thanks for sharing the video. Proof that you really can be riding along, minding your own business and then wham get hit out of the blue.

Definitely keep us posted.
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