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Old 03-14-2011, 03:43 PM   #1
Tacoma OP
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Chinese Scooter Title Problems in PA

Just want to make aware of residents of Pennsylvania many if not most Chinese Scooters will be REJECTED a Certificate of Title in the state of Pennsylvania based on the NHTSA does not recognize the VIN Number!
Dealers will sell you one without doing the title and plate work saying you must go somewhere else then later after you bought and paid for it you find out you can't get it titled and licensed and the selling dealer will refuse to return the scooter!
Just a heads up before you go out and buy one!
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:56 PM   #2
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Yeah, ain't Chinese scooter ownership grand...We will sell our soul for a cheap price. Thats why China practically owns us now..
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:07 PM   #3
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I just feel sorry for all the good people getting ripped off by some fly-by-night so called dealer selling new Chinese Scooters out of some old run down former gas station.
They take advantage of people that want to save money on the high cost of gas by owning a scooter that gets high gas mileage, then after they buy it they later find out they can't get it road legal.
Just want to get the word out.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
I just feel sorry for all the good people getting ripped off by some fly-by-night so called dealer selling new Chinese Scooters out of some old run down former gas station.
They take advantage of people that want to save money on the high cost of gas by owning a scooter that gets high gas mileage, then after they buy it they later find out they can't get it road legal.
Just want to get the word out.

Definitely! I've had 3 chinese bikes alone, and all three have been nightmares. From day 1, carb problems, won't idle pilot jet size incorrect, brake drum cable not working, etc. I could go on all day.

BUT this is only true of cheap no-name china bikes. Good quality companies like Lifan with good quality control are close to or as good as Honda or other Japanese brands.

But yes, they sell their bikes by looks, features and price. They make it extremely tempting. And they say they have a warranty, but you call them up and their either gone or won't answer!

Its those fly by night cheap scooter warehouses that are trouble. Yes, I've been spreading the word as much as possible and have prevent many of my friends from the nightmares. They are downright dangerous, with the weak ass cheap welds and crappy shocks, fake ABS with crap brakes, etc.

One thing that was real funny I saw is some of them had the float bowls welded on! So if you need to unclog a jet you have to do some serious work to get it off and on without leaks, or buy a whole new carb!

So yes, we try and spread the word to buy a quality china bike or a good bike. Even a 30+ year old Japanese bikes is better.

So lets definitely spread the word!
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:55 PM   #5
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What dealer would sell a motor vehicle without licensing it for you? I wouldnt consider that a dealer but a seller. Obviously they know you cant license it, and shady enough not to tell you. Unless its in some paperwork about that problem you could possibly sue them, like I said if your saying they are a licensed auto dealer. If its just some small store selling them, like here there is a chinese tool store that sells all types of bikes then its on you. One reason I try buy things like especially used from real dealers, they take care of the hassle for you.

One reason the carbs may be welded up is to pass emissions, if the end user cant adjust them then maybe its legal to sell. Like a scooter I got the high speed adjuster uses a pac man screw, where your not really supposed to adjust, but they come so lean to pass emissions you risk blowing it up
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:16 AM   #6
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"What dealer would sell a motor vehicle without licensing it for you? "

I didn`t know any dealers could license your vehicle for you. It must vary by state because around here you have to go to DMV in person to sign and pay for an initial registration.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdesj View Post
"What dealer would sell a motor vehicle without licensing it for you? "

I didn`t know any dealers could license your vehicle for you. It must vary by state because around here you have to go to DMV in person to sign and pay for an initial registration.
Most New york dealers do
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:09 AM   #8
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Here in Ca its included they mail the plates within 1 month to your house, you dont do anything else, even used they take care of it. Only go to dmv when buying from private party
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikegigabyte View Post
What dealer would sell a motor vehicle without licensing it for you? ...

I am going assume most drop-ship scooter "dealers" only provide a bill of sale and MCO.You are on your own getting it licensed in your state... assuming you can.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:38 AM   #10
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Nj

From what knowledge I have, the NJ database not only goes on VIN, but brand and model also, maybe just brand. There was a glitch in the old DMV system for Ural, the MSO/Bill of Sale said "Ural" but the database had "IMZ" or maybe it was the other way around. Anyhoo, it was a real hassle to title and register a Ural for a while, apparently it has been fixed so there are no more issues. I'm wondering if the Chinese machines are having the same problem?
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:02 AM   #11
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Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with PA and NJ. Several people with the same Chinese bikes that I have registered in Florida were rejected in PA and NJ. Does PA and NJ have their own VIN database and require manufacturers to pay a fee to register their VINs?
The bikes in question were legal with the EPA/DOT and listed in the federal database.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/veh-cer...r-02-01-10.csv
The "federal database" you linked to is the Environmental Protection Agency list. It isn't an approval from the Department of Transportation or, more properly, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration section of the DOT. The EPA list is just a list of vehicles that passed emissions. DOT/NHTSA are what set the standards for vehicle safety. Penn's DOT checks VIN's against the NHTSA database to see if they are legally safe. There is no special Penn only database, they use the federal list of what meets the very low minimum federal standards of safety. Some Chinese importers/manufacturers claimed that the NHTSA list was out of date and they had approved vehicles. But apparently there were indeed scooters being sold for which manufacturers never applied for a certificate of conformity to show that they met minimum safety standards.

This whole thing started 3 years ago. I do not know if any Chinese scoots are still being excluded in Penn. But the NHTSA database has been updated since 2008, so any scooter being excluded is likely being done so for good reason--it lacks safety approval.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:27 AM   #12
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How about this federal database?
http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/manufacture/lookup.cfm
If that is not correct then what federal database is PA and NJ using?
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
How about this federal database?
http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/manufacture/lookup.cfm
If that is not correct then what federal database is PA and NJ using?
I'm not an employee of PennDot, nor a resident of PA, and I don't know what specific database they use. My knowledge comes from reading the general public and dealer specific news reports and PennDot press releases about this, which started 3 years ago and continue to float around the scooter world today. Those reports, some from PennDot themselves, said that PennDot uses a database that checks the VIN against a NHTSA database for issues of safety (a NHTSA issue) as opposed to emissions (an EPA issue).

Your first example was an EPA database, which doesn't relate to safety issues that PennDOT was concerned with. Your latest example appears to be a searchable list of manufacturers pertaining to specific parts (tires, glazing, hoses, and some numbered parts that I have no idea what they are). However, there is no field for VIN searches. So I really don't know how this relates to the PennDOT Chinese scooter issues since every report I've seen specifically mentions VIN as the starting/sticking point in relation to compliance.

There are a lot of different databases reachable from the NHTSA website, but maybe PennDOT has a specific link up that's not web accessible to the average person. Calling or emailing PennDot while likely get you the exact database if you can reach the right office that runs things.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #14
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If you key in the WMI (first three digits of the VIN) at the last site I posted you will get the manufacturers name that is registered with NHTSA.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:15 PM   #15
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You can't key in anything on the link that comes up.
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