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Old 04-06-2011, 06:47 AM   #16
trackhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harcus View Post
FWIW...On mine for Baja, I only changed the main to a 180 from a 165 that I run here. The bike ran perfectly. Not sure what that bike had but...You're right. Slightly leaky valves definitely impact easy start up on a BRP.
If I remember right, 165 main jet, 68 pilot, needle clip position 2nd down.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead View Post
If I remember right, 165 main jet, 68 pilot, needle clip position 2nd down.
\
\
Probably works

I run 165 main, 65S pilot, center clip for here in Zion

Also, my engine refresh of new piston / rings / valves really perked up the pig.

I also run tall gears...15 / 45. I find that to be perfect. The motor sings at 75 mph & still climbs walls. Can not beat that torque.

Only with a pig.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:54 PM   #18
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I awoke to the sound of Ryman revving his motor. Bastard was up at the butt-crack of dawn. They just stood and looked at me like, "Are you here to ride or what?"

Alright, let's ride bitches!


This was the last of the GPS for me. We thought we had the electrical demons exorcised from the BRP before we started. At some point we re-grounded some stuff and that got the lights working again, but the GPS was on-off-on-off all morning, so I finally just put it in my bag. Now I was riding a bike I hardly knew, in a foreign countries, with no maps. All I needed to do was follow the dustcloud in front of me.

At some point we started climbing. We wanted to go from Laguna Salida to the West side of the range.


Erock doing the walk of shame after Ryman got his bike up a particularly gnarly hill.



The BRP was running well, but not starting easily. This was really the BRP's theme for the trip, "I will either start and idle, or I will run...but not both."

Once I got la porcina roja started again, I went out ahead, so I missed Erock's attempt at a backflip on the XL650. However, I did find the hardest way to climb the pass. After 2 drops and 4 or 5 re-starts on the XR, I came back down with my tail between my legs thinking, "If this is Baja for the next 7 days, I'm fooked."

We opted for another route through the pass that was much easier.




Once atop the pass, the roads got much easier:

While in the techy stuff, my neck brace was interfering with my ability to look up and down, so I removed it and tied it to my bag. By the time we stopped for lunch, I had lost my neck brace, and flip flops. Neck braces are nice when flying head-on into a side of beef, but they are a HUGE pain in the ass to wear, store, carry, attire....etc, etc, etc.

At some point, we reached the San Felipe whoops. We rode them for about 5 minutes, then decided removing our toes with a butter knife would be more fun.

We headed a different direction and found...I shit you not...untracked sand that was like making turns on a powder day. Fucking exquisite!

I was in front so it was mine, all mine (insert evil laugh). At the end I did stop for a gratuitous sand shot of Ryman:




Our lunch spot, notice Da Bird sticker on the window?

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Old 04-06-2011, 04:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post

The BRP was running well, but not starting easily. This was really the BRP's theme for the trip, "I will either start and idle, or I will run...but not both."
Was this only occurring when the engine was warm?
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Was this only occurring when the engine was warm?
The starting issue was at all temps, all altitudes, but was made worse by heat and lower altitudes. We changed the idle jet on the beach one morning and it started easily, but ran like shit. So we changed the main jet. It ran better, but no longer started easy when hot

To be completely honest, after day 2, our kicker-legs had had it and we kinda gave up on kick-starting unless we absolutely had to. Tow-starts, push starts, and gravity-assisted bump-starts became the norm. It was better to have her run like a raped ape than be easy to kick.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:25 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post
The starting issue was at all temps, all altitudes, but was made worse by heat and lower altitudes. We changed the idle jet on the beach one morning and it started easily, but ran like shit. So we changed the main jet. It ran better, but no longer started easy when hot
-Weird, changing the idle jet (pilot) shouldn't have been needed. I think it had a 68 in it already, and I had an extra 65 (leaner), so putting a leaner jet in it at that elevation wouldn't be the solution. I ran it with the 68 in Utah.

-The main jet doesn't affect starting, and only comes into play really at mid to upper throttle responses. Running rich it should stutter and bog when you crack the throttle, but it shouldn't have been running rich in Baja, as it was jetted for SLC summer temps.

-The needle clip position affects just above idle to mid/upper throttle responses.

Anyway, sorry you had bike issues.

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Old 04-07-2011, 10:00 AM   #22
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XRR jetting and starting are great forum issues but I wanna hear stories and look at pics...............


Nevertheless...my pig was jetted 175 main, 65s pilot, starting and running great till I gassed up in Zaragosa after the flat front tire...it died running down the road at speed.......even after a full day of carb cleaning and switching electrical components, it would not kick start....until the carb was removed in La Paz and cleaned in the shop....even that did not keep it fixed but we made it to Mulege....and that was the last kick start of the trip....it was back to the bump/tow starts......My biggest complaint with the XRR platform for this type of trip is precisely this issue....otherwise, the bike would be perfect with a sixth gear.... Honda for not replacing this bike with those issues being solved........




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Old 04-07-2011, 01:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel View Post
XRR jetting and starting are great forum issues but I wanna hear stories and look at pics...............


Nevertheless...my pig was jetted 175 main, 65s pilot, starting and running great till I gassed up in Zaragosa after the flat front tire...it died running down the road at speed.......even after a full day of carb cleaning and switching electrical components, it would not kick start....until the carb was removed in La Paz and cleaned in the shop....even that did not keep it fixed but we made it to Mulege....and that was the last kick start of the trip....it was back to the bump/tow starts......My biggest complaint with the XRR platform for this type of trip is precisely this issue....otherwise, the bike would be perfect with a sixth gear.... Honda for not replacing this bike with those issues being solved........




I agree. The XR seemed to be very sensitive to changes in elevation, temp, air flow, phases of the moon, etc.

Part of our jetting issue was that many of the jets looked like they had spent the past year in a rock-washer; and therefore, un-threadable.

Track-a-licious, don't ya know you should always store your jets in your cheek, not your sidebags ;)
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post
I agree. The XR seemed to be very sensitive to changes in elevation, temp, air flow, phases of the moon, etc.
That bike was sensitive for me too.......hence my ability to rejet it "in the field". I'd get it right, or so I thought, then ride upper elevation stuff in American Fork and get the high elevation, rich sputter.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:06 PM   #25
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Back to the report: At some point we made it to Gonzaga Bay. Tacos Pescados on the beach, then camping under a palapa.



You'll need to ask Ryman how many miles we did that day. It got kinda fuzzy on me after around 250 miles.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead View Post
That bike was sensitive for me too.......hence my ability to rejet it "in the field". I'd get it right, or so I thought, then ride upper elevation stuff in American Fork and get the high elevation, rich sputter.

At least re-jetting is very simple. The main jets can be swapped with one hand tied behind...yo mama!
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:11 PM   #27
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We were well over 300 miles for the day. We ended up in Gonzaga Bay and had our first fling with the seafood. Fish tacos at Alfonzanias! What a treat! Erock was convinced we were going to be eating dog in Mexico and was very stoked to be fed like a king!

After San Felipe we rode the highway south for quite a while until it turned into a choppy dirt road with angry shards of razor sharp rock sticking up everywhere. We were feeling very scrambled, and the rough road finish for the day almost had me shitting my spleen.

At the end of the pavement we all almost met our maker in one pile of tangled up tard. We were hauling ass because the newly paved road was so smooth and nice. I noticed the signs warning of the pavement ending in Spanish. I don't speak a word of Spanish, but I understood, the pavement was about to end. What the signs didn't explain was that the pavement would end, and very shortly after there would be a sharp decline with a concrete wall waiting to chuck your worthless corpse onto a bunch of re bar sticking up in the air. I slammed on the skids and I think I tasted my asshole as it came up through my throat! Luckily I wasn't dosing when this happened and I was able to get the bike stopped. I turned around to see hick and Erock both stopped right behind me all three of us with holy shit looks on our faces. Hick was laughing uncontrollably like something funny had happened! WTF! That was NOT funny! Oh well Ride on! As we pulled around the death trap and onto the "graded" road I noticed a pack of about 20 coyotes looking VERY disappointed at missing an afternoon snack! One of them chased us for a while and then gave up. F U Coyotes.....We are NOT dinner!

We got to Gonzaga after dark and found a palapa to sleep under. We had survived our first day of riding in Baja and life was GOOD!

This was the scene the next morning!
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:40 PM   #28
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Some Words On The XR For The Pig People. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead View Post
-Weird, changing the idle jet (pilot) shouldn't have been needed. I think it had a 68 in it already, and I had an extra 65 (leaner), so putting a leaner jet in it at that elevation wouldn't be the solution. I ran it with the 68 in Utah.
Actually, the 65s was in the carb and somehow hick got the 68 with the smashed threads to go in. This helped with the starting, but didn't solve the issues we were having. It's funny to hear that harcus was using a 180 main and all was good because I put in a 175 before we left and I was surprised when the bike was running rich. Our jet selection was very limited because all the threads on the jets were fucked. I think we ended up with a 165 main which was fine at sea level and too rich above 3000 feet. That's another thing, almost every day we were riding elevations between sea level and 5000 ft. Looking back I think we were lean on the pilot and rich on the main, so at low elevation it wouldn't start, but ran fine after started and at high elevation, it would start easier, but ran like shit. At some point I thought maybe the intake valves were tight and I did a Mexican valve adjustment.

IMG_2394

IMG_2413
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:57 PM   #29
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I carried those extra jets with me when I rode, so it's not a surprise that the threads were fucked from bouncing around with all sorts of other shit in my pack. I never looked at 'em after my 800 mile loop in Wyoming.

Float bowl height could have been off too, or twisted out of spec when it was removed.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:10 PM   #30
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Observations - An ode to the XR

Since temperamental XRs seem to be a common topic, here are my observations accumulated over several years of owning & diddling...

1. Valves - The valve condition seems to have a big impact on starting on this machine. I am referring to the quality of seal of the valves on the seats. I base this on several things:

a. A fresh valve job improves startup tremendously. The fresh valve job now on my XR makes startup crisp with slicht choking & no throttle. It starts at idle.
b. slightly over tight valves make it very hard to start by kicking.
c. One must be very careful to turn the engine over in a CW direction when adjusting the valves, not slipping CCW. If one is not careful, the auto compression release will impact the adjustments.

2. Kick start - We all know that this works but we all know that it is tricky to do consistently particularly when you are tired or have fallen. The reason I installed the electric starter was for consistency and speed. The starter spins the motor fast enough to overcome leaky valves, flooding, etc.

3. Pilot jet - The 65S that I have installed actually is a bit rich at this altitude. I have to turn the air screw out further than I like to balance it. It did work better at sea level (because of air density) allowing me to turn the air screw in to where it belongs. Had to turn it back out a little here.

4. Oil use - The valve stem seals were mostly responsible for increased oil leakage in mine, not rings. Hard to determine exact percentage but probably 80 / 20.

5. Piston slap - I replaced the piston & rings with just a cylinder honing. Between that & the valves, the engine is definitely running stronger but I still notice some slap. It seems to be a function of a race engine.

6. Ignition - I can not say I have seen a weak spark on mine but I do believe that good start up is aceived by a crisp kick. Again, hard to do in all cases. I did see lack of consistent spark on Infidel's bike in Baja. I believe he had an abnormal condition in that he stated he had put the stator trigger in improperly, tried to start it, disassembled it & corrected the error. I could see scratch marks on the module & suspected that it was slightly misaligned. Any misalignment of the trigger with the stator will cause a lower spark amplitude due to lack of sine wave alignment. Who knows. Just a theory at this point.

7. Main jet - Makes absolutely no difference on startup. In fact, if you read the Mikuni manual that comes with the carb Kevin has, it points out you can REMOVE the main & run the engine up to 3/4 ish throttle to prove the point. A proper main will eliminate loading at altitude or burning a pistio at low altitude.

8. Needle / needle jet - I have ran a different taper needle at higher altitude with success to minimize an over rich condition. The needle position controlled by the clip can cause over rich on low end. Mostly show up in throttle responsiveness in my experience.

Summary - My guess is valve leakage & recommend is that you do a valve job as a minimum & consider the rings. You will see a notable difference.

PS - I still hate kickin this pig!
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